One punch and knock your opponent out

[Kung Fu Wang]

Um, all kinds of things that don’t involve getting into a ring. Nobody needs to compete, if that isn’t your interest.

What are those things? Could you explain in more detail?

You don't have to

- spar in the ring. You can spar outside the ring.
- wrestle on the mat. You can wrestle outdoor.

Also will you take a

- class without midterm and final exams?
- test and don't care about your score?

 

[TSDTexan]

Did some Googling, and it appears many people are under the impression that the guys who got knocked out were drunk. I don't think I can accept this video as proof of anything.

There is a whole system of martial arts that employ drinking. And relaxation of gross muscle tone and the neck and spine help give them more staying power in a fight.

None of them (the KO dudes) were staggering when they came out.

And these are Russians for crying out loud. They are a drinking culture.

Please provide me with who these ”many people" are.

Rejecting video testimony based on unsubstantiated hearsay is an illogical move. The hearsay is not under oath, and may be a damage control move of the gang.

"Hey Ivan... This fight it makes us look bad. It is hurting our reputation"
"OK Boris, get the word out from a bunch of people that they were too drunk to fight"

 

[jobo]

Did some Googling, and it appears many people are under the impression that the guys who got knocked out were drunk. I don't think I can accept this video as proof of anything.

there is an extremly high chance that any fight with in or in the vicinity off a bar involves at least one drunk and that these also make up the vast majority of fights as suddenly people think they can fight

being able to knock drunks out is an incredibly useful skill , being able to knock multiple drunks out even more so, as they always seems to have mates

 

[Alan0354]

Enough that someone made a "top 35" list The 35 Most Brutal One-Punch Knockouts

I believe the shortest UFC match was ~5 seconds ending in knockout.

If your point is "relying on getting a one-hit knockout is foolish", I agree. If your point is that they are extremely rare, I think that's overstating.


I have a feeling that if we created a new sport where we added knives for everyone we'd see something similar.

Heck, if we just changed the existing floor to stone it would have an adverse effect on many popular techniques. I remember a reality show from a time back that had a bunch of MMA guys in the same house. A fight broke out. One went for the... is it a "standing arm bar"? The one where you grab the wrist with your ands and pull it across your chest, but with a standing opponent meaning you are putting your head on the floor)... his opponent simply pulled him up and slammed his head on the concrete before he could get the bar.

The technique was good, but the conditions were different and it was the wrong choice.

I recall a street fight that made it to camera with to South American MMA champs fighting some locals. One of the locals had a stick. He swung the stick at the MMA guy. The correct approach would have been to move in, but he didn't. I have to presume because his training is against unarmed people and backing up from a punch is appropriate. With this, it just left him in range to get swung at again, and he was, and he was struck in the head and lost.

UFC and other limited rules competitions absolutely exposed flaws in training methodology as well as fantasy approaches to combat; but the fact that people who trained with a specific set of rules succeeded better under those rules than those who trained with a different set is, well, a no brainer.

I suspect you and I agree more than we disagree here; but I do think your position is overly absolute.

I agree, real fight is not like any cage fight with rules and the stage is ideal with no stuffs on the floor and padded stage. Any rules will deviate from reality. But UFC comes the closest.

I am not talking about UFC today, it's the early 90s to the late 90s where there are only rules against biting, eyes gauging and fish hook. People can hit the back of the head, between the legs and all. That's when you see what works and what not. Later, UFC added a lot more rules that give advantage to the grapplers.

You are right about the stick, that's the reason I put in a lot of effort in stick training with a walking cane as I am 68, it doen't look suspicious for me to carry a cane. That's the biggest equalizer for people like me that don't know grappling and take down defense.

I really wish they come up with a USC ( ultimate stick champion) since I am learn stick fight. I don't want to learn any fancy unnecessary moves, only concentrate on stuffs that works. In MA, there are too many fancy moves that is a total waste of time and useless. You ever watch Xu Zhiaodong challenge all the Kung Fu in China. Go look on youtube. Did he beat those masters up and good. It's to the point someone offer like $20K to anyone that can beat him and he is censored by Chinese government. Before I go any further, I want to specify I am a Chinese and I learn Wing Chung for a short while. I particularly hate people "talk" kung fu. Have the guts, go into the octagon. Not ideal, but still the closest. I wish they bring back the old UFC from the 90s.

 

[Alan0354]

No. Look back at the OP question. That is the context. Kungfu Wang was asking "if you can train to KO with one hit, is training grappling even necessary, if your striking game is that strong?"

Shouldn't all ones efforts go towards trying to reach a very high bar.

A lot of people were scoffing at his question.
Kungfu Wang never said whether this was for compative sports or for street self defense. Or if you were trying to one punch KO a trained grappler or trained striker... I was merely point out that with enough training some people can KO with one hit.

But if I was having to put out a one hit knock out I would rather strike a wrestler or grappler instead of a boxer. The odds of hitting the former are far better than hitting the latter.

It would be good if Kungfu Wang clarified who was being KO'd. Is it a self defense setting or in a cage fight, with a well trained consensual opponent?

I just read back the first post:

If you can knock your opponent out with one punch, you don't need to train any grappling art. What can be more important than this in your MA training?

Your thought?

To me, this mean you don't have to learn grappling and take down defense if you can KO with one punch.

Look back in the first few UFC fights in the 90s with almost no rules, there were boxers went into the octagon, did they get creamed.

 

[TSDTexan]

I just read back the first post:

To me, this mean you don't have to learn grappling and take down defense if you can KO with one punch.

Look back in the first few UFC fights in the 90s with almost no rules, there were boxers went into the octagon, did they get creamed.

Tell me though. A prime Tyson, George Foreman or Earnie Shavers... You think a small wrestler is going to successful shoot them. I would bet big money on those three.

One thing that people miss out on about UFC is they cherry picked the strikers and heavily weighed the deck in favor of the grapplers.

The earliest UFC was really just a very cleverly designed marketing campaign for Gracie branded Brazilian Juijitsu.

Take that from the mouth of Bill "Superfoot" Wallace who was hired to provide fight commentary for these fights.

So, that being a given. That the very best of strikers were kept out, I wouldn't call it fair or objective. They were picked knowing that they would be able to cream the boxers.

 

[JerryL]

Tell me though. A prime Tyson, George Foreman or Earnie Shavers... You think a small wrestler is going to successful shoot them. I would bet big money on those three.

A couple of points.

I don't think what the UFC really did was show that striking arts were a problem. I know that's what many even in the UFC tried to say. I've had arguments directly with a Gracie when his argument got stupid (it was over multiple attackers); but what it really showed was that many people were not engaged in the sort of training that would result in winning fights.

You've picked the best boxers in the world... so put them up against similarly sized best wrestlers in the world. When we put anyone up against a 5-year-old, the 5-year-old loses, not because of approach, but because of physical disadvantage.

And wrestlers are a great example of my point... they actually fared poorly in the beginning because of their lack of experience with striking, but the adaption was quick because their training methods were already good, they just needed to modify the rules.

 

[JerryL]

I am not talking about UFC today, it's the early 90s to the late 90s where there are only rules against biting, eyes gauging and fish hook. People can hit the back of the head, between the legs and all. That's when you see what works and what not. Later, UFC added a lot more rules that give advantage to the grapplers.

Much of how we got from there to here is someone came in, did something (say: shoving their hand down their opponent's pants) and the something was effective and they won; and then it was outlawed because they didn't want fights to go that way.

And honestly: there are still unwritten rules. Boxing ears can be extremely effective (not always, but what always is?) Ignoring the pain, the damage to the inner ear can cause short term dizziness, blurred vision, and even unconsciousness. It can also permanently deafen someone; yet, to my knowledge, even when not expressly forbidden, no one has ever tried it in the octagon. It's not like they are giving up something to do so... it's still a punch to the head even if the boxing doesn't have effect.

 

[drop bear]

I agree, real fight is not like any cage fight with rules and the stage is ideal with no stuffs on the floor and padded stage. Any rules will deviate from reality. But UFC comes the closest.

I am not talking about UFC today, it's the early 90s to the late 90s where there are only rules against biting, eyes gauging and fish hook. People can hit the back of the head, between the legs and all. That's when you see what works and what not. Later, UFC added a lot more rules that give advantage to the grapplers.

You are right about the stick, that's the reason I put in a lot of effort in stick training with a walking cane as I am 68, it doen't look suspicious for me to carry a cane. That's the biggest equalizer for people like me that don't know grappling and take down defense.

I really wish they come up with a USC ( ultimate stick champion) since I am learn stick fight. I don't want to learn any fancy unnecessary moves, only concentrate on stuffs that works. In MA, there are too many fancy moves that is a total waste of time and useless. You ever watch Xu Zhiaodong challenge all the Kung Fu in China. Go look on youtube. Did he beat those masters up and good. It's to the point someone offer like $20K to anyone that can beat him and he is censored by Chinese government. Before I go any further, I want to specify I am a Chinese and I learn Wing Chung for a short while. I particularly hate people "talk" kung fu. Have the guts, go into the octagon. Not ideal, but still the closest. I wish they bring back the old UFC from the 90s.

Look up dog brothers.

And.

The rule set did not make those Chinese masters loose. Not being able to fight decided that.

 

[Graywalker]

All I can say is how often you see one punch knock out in UFC or Balletor? Almost never!!! It's always a series of punches and kicks. If anyone believe they can one punch and knock out the opponent, they must not be in real fight and just all talk. That's what I hate about all the so called masters, they said if you do this, I would do that........it's like all talking on paper.

This I talk with a lot of bitterness, I was from the days before UFC and grappling. I don't know anything about grappling. Remember UFC in the late 90s to early 2000s, time where still have strikers and grapplers. You can see the grappler literally willing to take the first punch and shoot the striker. They know once they get hold of the striker, it's done. Now a days, this doesn't work because nobody gets into the Octagon without knowing both. This means taking a punch and charge is no longer work.

All that means is, regarding to the tittle of this thread, I assume the OP is a striker that don't know grappling and jujitsu. So it's like going back to the late 90s of UFC.......facing the grappler, you prey on one punch knock out before the opponent shoot and tackle you down. To answer this question, go back and watch the UFC fights in the late 90s and see how many succeeded in knocking the opponent out before being tackled. From my memory, DON'T BET ON IT.

Sure, your opponent is no UFC fighter, but are you a UFC fighter? MMA is amazing, it really shut a lot of people up. It evolve so fast nobody dominant for extend period of time. People improve by the day, Gracie got creamed by Matt Huges, who got knocked out within a few months. Chuck Ledel didn't stay up long. Look at Connor McGregor now. I know people hate what I am saying. I HATE what I said here too!!! But it's painfully true. That's why I practice cane fight. At least I have better chance, better reach, hit harder with a stick than punches.

If you are young enough, go learn MMA, learn take down defense. If you are too old like me, be bitter and learn stick fight. Forget the fantasy of one punch knock out.

Literally hundreds of one punch knockouts on YouTube.
MMA-the idea is nothing new...not really sure why folks believe others were not cross training before the advent of UFC.

This is why it was a style against style promotion.

 

[Graywalker]

Lol...yes I agree, but you should have stated the average sport martial artist...not the average male.

 

[Graywalker]

Sport is the path. Combat is the goal. Without the path (sport), you can't reach to your goal (combat).

A: How many eye balls have you taken out so far?
B: None.
A: How many times have you use single leg to take down your opponent?
B: Over a 1,000 times.

I would disagree, there have always been two paths...only one is wrapped in the blanket of safety.

 

[jobo]

I would disagree, there have always been two paths...only one is wrapped in the blanket of safety.

there are many paths grasshopper

 

[Graywalker]

The difference is that when you have rules that protect the safety of the combatants, you can increase the skill level and develop a more elite fighter, because you can perfect techniques with reduced threat of injury.

It’s like a kimura versus someone using biting to submit someone. The person who practiced the Kimura in a safe environment has a higher chance of pulling it off because they’ve been able to practice it under pressure over and over again.

You really can’t practice biting on that level, because you’d quickly run out of training partners, and students would develop physical and mental diseases from consuming so much blood and flesh. When the time comes to use it, you won’t be able to because you’ve never done it enough (if at all) to get good at it.

You really can’t get good at something you never really do.

No no you can't. You simply teach and promote false confidence.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I would disagree, there have always been two paths...only one is wrapped in the blanket of safety.

What's the other path?

 

[Graywalker]

there are many paths grasshopper

Two...you test it in sport, or reality.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Two...you test it in sport, or reality.

To test in reality can cause too much legal issue.

 

[jobo]

Two...you test it in sport, or reality.

do i take it your position is that sport isnt part of our reality, that's very profound grass hopper, is it a wormhole to another dimension do you think

 

[Urban Trekker]

Literally hundreds of one punch knockouts on YouTube.

Yes, and either alcohol is involved or the guy getting knocked out is significantly smaller than the guy knocking him out.

 

[Hanzou]

No no you can't. You simply teach and promote false confidence.

How is it false confidence? I never said you could ALWAYS pull it off on someone, but a BJJ blue belt who can consistently nail their fat, muscular, skinny, short, tall, aggressive, sneaky, gi, or nogi classmates with a Kimura setup has a very good chance of being able to pull it off on someone who is untrained.

The biter? Not so much.