One inch punch

[geezer]

Experienced it a couple of times, and got knocked own by it. Not really sure how you would differentiate a punch/strike from a push, but the impact felt instantaneous, like a hit rather than being moved by a push.

In our training this ‘one inch’ force generation thing isn’t really used as a strike, but to disrupt and set up take downs in a stand up grappling situation. Our ‘push hands’ rules don’t allow for strikes so these sneaky one inch jolts are used to ‘skirt the rules’.

Example in the video below:

This is not strictly about one inch punches but just short /no distance techniques used for such purposes.

When you take all the magical rubbish away, fajin ( 發勁 ) really just boils down to explosive "short power".

Short power, the ability to generate and transmit damaging force in a short distance, is very useful in both striking, grappling, and weapons arts. Of course we train it in Wing Chun, and also in Latosa Escrima, but I see it in boxing and wrestling too.

As ZZJ points out, it's not just for punching. If you can "jolt" and unbalance your opponent ....or even just make him tense-up, new opportunities emerge.

 

[geezer]

Experienced it a couple of times, and got knocked own by it. Not really sure how you would differentiate a punch/strike from a push...

To me, push or shove implies gradual acceleration driving the target back. True short power is not a slow, muscular shove. It is a fast, sharp move that sharply impacts the target ...so your body doesn't move back much but the strike either penetrates deeply into a soft target ...or jolts your frame if striking a hard target.

At least that's how it felt to me. TBH I have had it done to me by people much better at it than I am ...or will ever be!

 

[geezer]

Not talking about just to push your opponent away here. To generate powerful punch to hurt (or knock down) your opponent" ...

- 3 inch is possible.

Yes. 0-inch and 1-inch punches are OK for training, and fun for carefully set up and not-so realistic demos.

3-inch is absolutely possible if you are very good and the stars align.

6-inch short power is definitely a real thing even for us ordinary mortals. And really useful when you are in close.

- Have you ever seen it is used in the real world?
- If you can hurt your opponent with "1 inch punch", why do you even need to train anything else?

What's your opinion on this?

John, this is an old thread, but since it's been resurrected, here's my opinion as a Wing Chun and Escrima guy.

Yes short punches can really hurt people, and sharp, short-power can disrupt your opponent's balance or stance and help set up a strong follow up ...so this is a useful skill to develop and integrate into your fighting art ...especially if you like to fight close.

That said, of course you can develop more power with a big wind-up. If you can land it. I mean I don't have to know much about baseball to know that a bunt won't hit the ball out of the park. That doesn't make it useless.

 

[zzj]

To me, push or shove implies gradual acceleration driving the target back. True short power is not a slow, muscular shove. It is a fast, sharp move that sharply impacts the target ...so your body doesn't move back much but the strike either penetrates deeply into a soft target ...or jolts your frame if striking a hard target.

At least that's how it felt to me. TBH I have had it done to me by people much better at it than I am ...or will ever be!

It’s a short power punch for sure then, felt like being driven into by a battering ram. I still fell back but I could feel the penetrating force on my chest for the next few minutes at least. The ‘one inch punch’ is just a subset of short power as you have suggested, and when seen in that context, it definitely has a place in real world application, just not as the singular ‘one inch punch’ that Bruce lee made famous.

 

[Alan0354]

I learn a little WC before, I know how it supposed to be done. It's combination of legs, hips, shoulder, elbow and even wrist to nudge at the same time to produce the shock power.

I believe if you have time to set up like in demo, people can punch hard enough with 1" punch. The question is in real fight and people are moving, do you have time to coordinate the body? Can you punch hard enough to do damage against the opponent. If it does not, then what is the point of using in real fight. Bruce Lee was famous in that 1" punch, but far as I know, he never use it in real fights. This is nothing new, you ever see people use that and drop someone in real fight or even in competitions?

I think it's good to practice as it can help longer punch, the idea is the same. So even it's not necessary effective in 1", but extend to like 6" or 12", that can become realistic and effective in real fight as it's more forgiving even thought the timing of all the muscle is not perfect.

Even for normal punching, you can feel it if the timing is right. All of a sudden, you can feel the fist penetrating the heavy bag more, the sound is different, that it has a deeper echoie sound. I definitely can feel it when I get it. So it's like the more you practice, it increases the chance you can get it.

I think, just practice, don't worry about whether it works or not, just practice. It can only help the longer punch. Only two things I practice of WC, the front step kick to the knee and the punch. I like the WC punch using the last two knuckles of the fist. I can add the wrist motion like Bruce Lee demo in movies. That little wrist nudging add power to the punch, I can feel it.

 

[_Simon_]

A few months ago in the dojo our instructor grabbed out the rebreakable boards and we worked on a palm heel through it. Then he put two boards together.

Then for a bit of fun he asked if anyone wanted to try and break the two boards like this: extend your arm, fingers outstretched and tips touching the board. From THAT distance palm heel. Put up my hand and said "oh yeah sure I'll give it go!"

No idea if I could or not, but I knew the mechanics and proper relaxation and alignment that was theoretically needed. First attempt it didn't break, so I shook it out, relaxed about tenfold more than before, and really honed in on my breathing and connection with the ground, and utilising my feet.

BOOM! I honestly surprised myself and instructor was rather impressed haha. Very cool! Chinkuchi is the term I believe is used for this sort of thing, or a really good understanding or expression of that principle.

 

[Alan0354]

A few months ago in the dojo our instructor grabbed out the rebreakable boards and we worked on a palm heel through it. Then he put two boards together.

Then for a bit of fun he asked if anyone wanted to try and break the two boards like this: extend your arm, fingers outstretched and tips touching the board. From THAT distance palm heel. Put up my hand and said "oh yeah sure I'll give it go!"

No idea if I could or not, but I knew the mechanics and proper relaxation and alignment that was theoretically needed. First attempt it didn't break, so I shook it out, relaxed about tenfold more than before, and really honed in on my breathing and connection with the ground, and utilising my feet.

BOOM! I honestly surprised myself and instructor was rather impressed haha. Very cool! Chinkuchi is the term I believe is used for this sort of thing, or a really good understanding or expression of that principle.

I am curious, is rebreakable boards easier or harder to break than real board? I have rebreakable boards, never try the real boards as I am too cheap. I found rebreakable boards are not that easy to break. One is very easy, but stacking 3 with no space is not so easy. I actually broke my knuckle when I broke 3 boards with no space between in the holder that tied onto a heavy bag(so I could punch horizontally instead of punching down. I worn a thin Everlast bag glove that is about 1/4" thick padding, still broke my knuckle. Just curious how does this compare with real boards. Since I broke my knuckle, I never dare to do it again. Just want to find out how many real boards I can break WITHOUT actually try it again.

Ha ha, finally I see the word "CHINKUCHI" here. I mentioned this a few times and nobody responded to that!! The idea is very simple, nothing mysterious about it at all. Doing it is hard, a lot of practicing. Like I said, you can feel it and hear it if you do it right on a heavy bag. It feels and sounds different.

It's about about Chinkuchi, be it 1", 6" or longer punch. Longer punch can hit a lot harder. This is just physics, it's like car testing in 1/4 mile run. They set the fix distance for the car to accelerate from dead stop to max speed. If the distance is longer, the faster the car will be at the end because it has time to gain speed travel the longer distance.

So for 1" punch, you only have 1" distance to accelerate, it is slower than if you have 3", 3" is slower than 6". This is simple physics. There is NO WAY the same person can punch just as hard at 1" vs 6" if everything is done the same. It's that simple. This means if one practice hard enough, his 6" punch is going to much harder than 1".

That's the reason I said it's useful to practice, but don't get too hung up on it, more practice, better one can achieve Chinkuchi.

BTW, all the 1" punch I saw including Bruce Lee has a lot of PUSHING element in it rather than penetration. A good penetrating punch does NOT move the object backwards. This is very basic also, a good punch penetrates the heavy bag, not pushing the heavy bag. One can easily see how good a person punch by looking at the heavy bag and how it sounds. A good heavy punch doesn't move the bag a lot, the punch make a bigger dent into the bag. That if one punch a few punches, the bag just slowly move back, not bouncing all over the place if he achieve Chinkuchi. Also it sound very different, very echoie sounding, have a deeper sound. Idea is simple, doing it right takes a lot of practice. I just never take 1" punch serious.

 

[_Simon_]

I am curious, is rebreakable boards easier or harder to break than real board?

Hmm I can't be certain, but some rebreakables are incredibly hard indeed. Some say they're harder because you need better accuracy (a real wood board you can actually break it along any grain, the rebreakable has to be in the middle line).

Ha ha, finally I see the word "CHINKUCHI" here. I mentioned this a few times and nobody responded to that!! The idea is very simple, nothing mysterious about it at all. Doing it is hard, a lot of practicing. Like I said, you can feel it and hear it if you do it right on a heavy bag. It feels and sounds different.

Yes haha, chinkuchi! To me it's more than just about relaxation/tension, but proper alignment, structure, deep connection, breathing, intention... so many variables unifying into your direct movement. To me it's about everything and every aspect supporting each other.

Although I don't think your car analogy holds up... mass wise it's a way different scenario than a fist. Car needs to build momentum over time, the proper explosive timing within the body can generate immense speed from the get-go. But would be interesting to test the power of a punch from 1", 6" etc, from someone who can utilise good chinkuchi.

 

[Alan0354]

Hmm I can't be certain, but some rebreakables are incredibly hard indeed. Some say they're harder because you need better accuracy (a real wood board you can actually break it along any grain, the rebreakable has to be in the middle line).

Yes haha, chinkuchi! To me it's more than just about relaxation/tension, but proper alignment, structure, deep connection, breathing, intention... so many variables unifying into your direct movement. To me it's about everything and every aspect supporting each other.

Although I don't think your car analogy holds up... mass wise it's a way different scenario than a fist. Car needs to build momentum over time, the proper explosive timing within the body can generate immense speed from the get-go. But would be interesting to test the power of a punch from 1", 6" etc, from someone who can utilise good chinkuchi.

I found breaking those rebreakable boards are not easy. I never try 4 yet. Punching down is a lot easier, hanging on the heavy bag is harder. But after I broke my knuckle, I quit. That was 20 years ago. No more.

In a way, 1/4 mile car test is similar. Even with chinkuchi, you still need to build up speed from 0 to the point of contact. Yes, After a few inches, then you might reach the natural body limit, any farther might not add anymore speed. But the first few inches are critical.

The few 1" punch demo I saw including Bruce Lee, it's really a little cheating. They actually moved the body quite a bit forward even though the fist is not moving. They wait until the rest of the body gain speed before pushing the fist forward. Yes, theoretically the punch is 1" away, but really the movement is like 6" or a little more. And still, there were a lot of pushing instead of popping and penetration. If someone punch a really good punch, the guy should not be flying backwards, the punch should penetrate and the guy should drop instead of flying backwards. This can be easily show punching bags. A good punch should not push the bag backward that much. You just see the fist punch into the bag and make a dent, the bag should not move back that much.

You guys should know all this, this is very basic punching we learn right at the beginning. I only had a few years of training, not expert like most of you guys here. Idea is very easy and basic, just takes a few months of punching heavy bags to slowly get it.

 

[_Simon_]

Cool.

Punching down is a lot easier, hanging on the heavy bag is harder.

Hey just out of curiosity do you remember how you did this?? I do have a heavy bag.. I'd love to try setting up a board vertically (without buying one of those fancy contraptions hehe)

 

[Alan0354]

Cool.



Hey just out of curiosity do you remember how you did this?? I do have a heavy bag.. I'd love to try setting up a board vertically (without buying one of those fancy contraptions hehe)

I bought the holder that can be tied onto the heavy bag. I'll take a picture of it when I go to the shed. I was looking around and I could not find the same online. I don't recall it's that expensive.

I think it's harder to break when tie it on the bag because one cannot use push motion to break the board as the heavy bag will move away if the motion is push.

 

[Steve]

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmagicfuckery/s/wOCYkSdUGA

Saw this on Reddit. Pretty impressive, if it’s not a fake.

 

[Oily Dragon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmagicfuckery/s/wOCYkSdUGA

Saw this on Reddit. Pretty impressive, if it’s not a fake.

Walnuts are very fragile and he's basically just cracking it on the bottle, which is a lot denser.

I think anyone could do this with a little practice. An egg would end up the same, only a lot messier.

 

[HighKick]

Walnuts are very fragile and he's basically just cracking it on the bottle, which is a lot denser.

I think anyone could do this with a little practice. An egg would end up the same, only a lot messier.

Have you every tried cracking a black walnut hull by hand? Fragile is not a word I would use to describe it.

 

[Steve]

Walnuts are very fragile and he's basically just cracking it on the bottle, which is a lot denser.

I think anyone could do this with a little practice. An egg would end up the same, only a lot messier.

Can you do it? I am sure I couldn't. In fact, just holding it there, suspended between his fist and the bottle requires significant practice. I'd bet that anyone here, myself included, who tried that would have a hard time just setting that up. The bottle would either float forward and up or the walnut would drop.

Is there any fighting application to this? I don't think so... but it's a really cool trick. And I don't think it's as easy as you seem to believe.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Have you every tried cracking a black walnut hull by hand? Fragile is not a word I would use to describe it.

Totally different kind of walnut than in the video.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Have you every tried cracking a black walnut hull by hand? Fragile is not a word I would use to describe it.

Regular old eggs are fragile. And yet, they're remarkably difficult to break by squeezing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmagicfuckery/s/wOCYkSdUGA

Saw this on Reddit. Pretty impressive, if it’s not a fake.

I assume you noticed the cut at 22 seconds? Cardinal sign of a fake.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Can you do it? I am sure I couldn't. In fact, just holding it there, suspended between his fist and the bottle requires significant practice. I'd bet that anyone here, myself included, who tried that would have a hard time just setting that up. The bottle would either float forward and up or the walnut would drop.

Probably. What about it is so mystical? Smashing a weak little nut on a glass surface?

The bottle is heavy, so balancing a walnut on it is pretty easy.

I just tried it on the side of a chair. Those types of walnuts are pretty fragile.

He's just putting a little weight on the nut to hold the bottle steady. But If the nut wasn't there it would be just as easy to balance the bottle.

Anybody can try it, and do it easily, if they really need to be convinced.

Is there any fighting application to this? I don't think so... but it's a really cool trick. And I don't think it's as easy as you seem to believe.

The fighting application is kind of obvious, terror.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I assume you noticed the cut at 22 seconds? Cardinal sign of a fake.

In th comments there is a different take that isn't edited, showing the actual nut shattering.

It's not like it's a coconut...those iron palm dudes are impressive.