One punch and knock your opponent out

[Flying Crane]

Sport is the path. Combat is the goal. Without the path (sport), you can't reach to your goal (combat).

Of course this is not true in any absolute way. Sport is one path. It is not THE path. There are others.

 

[Flying Crane]

All I can say is how often you see one punch knock out in UFC or Balletor? Almost never!!! It's always a series of punches and kicks. If anyone believe they can one punch and knock out the opponent, they must not be in real fight and just all talk. That's what I hate about all the so called masters, they said if you do this, I would do that........it's like all talking on paper.

This I talk with a lot of bitterness, I was from the days before UFC and grappling. I don't know anything about grappling. Remember UFC in the late 90s to early 2000s, time where still have strikers and grapplers. You can see the grappler literally willing to take the first punch and shoot the striker. They know once they get hold of the striker, it's done. Now a days, this doesn't work because nobody gets into the Octagon without knowing both. This means taking a punch and charge is no longer work.

All that means is, regarding to the tittle of this thread, I assume the OP is a striker that don't know grappling and jujitsu. So it's like going back to the late 90s of UFC.......facing the grappler, you prey on one punch knock out before the opponent shoot and tackle you down. To answer this question, go back and watch the UFC fights in the late 90s and see how many succeeded in knocking the opponent out before being tackled. From my memory, DON'T BET ON IT.

Sure, your opponent is no UFC fighter, but are you a UFC fighter? MMA is amazing, it really shut a lot of people up. It evolve so fast nobody dominant for extend period of time. People improve by the day, Gracie got creamed by Matt Huges, who got knocked out within a few months. Chuck Ledel didn't stay up long. Look at Connor McGregor now. I know people hate what I am saying. I HATE what I said here too!!! But it's painfully true. That's why I practice cane fight. At least I have better chance, better reach, hit harder with a stick than punches.

If you are young enough, go learn MMA, learn take down defense. If you are too old like me, be bitter and learn stick fight. Forget the fantasy of one punch knock out.

Actually, the OP practices a primarily grappling martial method.

 

[Alan0354]

Actually, the OP practices a primarily grappling martial method.

Then why even talk about one punch knock out? What is the chance of that?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Then why even talk about one punch knock out? What is the chance of that?

When you throw a punch, if your opponent

1. moves back, it's A - B < A (rear end collision).
2. stands still, it's A = A (car hits on a tree).
3. moves forward, it's A + B > A (head on collision).

1 < 2 < 3

In order to cause a head on collision, you need to pull your opponent into your punch.

How to make that happen is what we are discussing here. So far nobody has ever suggested "pulling" yet.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Of course this is not true in any absolute way. Sport is one path. It is not THE path. There are others.

What can be the other path?

 

[Alan0354]

When you throw a punch, if your opponent

1. moves back, it's A - B < A (rear end collision).
2. stands still, it's A = A (car hits on a tree).
3. moves forward, it's A + B > A (head on collision).

1 < 2 < 3

In order to cause a head on collision, you need to pull your opponent into your punch.

How to make that happen is what we are discussing here. So far nobody has ever suggested "pulling" yet.

That's talk fight on paper, for what? Like I said in very detail, watch UFC, how many times there is a one punch knock out. If those elite fighters can't do that, why are we amateurs wasting time talking about it.

 

[Urban Trekker]

That's talk fight on paper, for what? Like I said in very detail, watch UFC, how many times there is a one punch knock out. If those elite fighters can't do that, why are we amateurs wasting time talking about it.

Same with boxing. Very rare. Mike Tyson and George Foreman have done it, and that's the level you've got to be on. I wonder how many people here believe that they are on that level.

 

[Alan0354]

Same with boxing. Very rare. Mike Tyson and George Foreman have done it, and that's the level you've got to be on. I wonder how many people here believe that they are on that level.

If we are at that level, do we have time to BS here? I remember when I was in Tae Kwon Do, one of the black belt that was very very good in the class doing sparring and all, he went to a PKA match and did he got beat up and good. He said you can spar all you want, when you walk into the ring and go all out, it's a different world. I can attest how good he was in the class, it's a different world in the ring. Until people put their lives on the line, they don't know what they are talking. PKA is child's play compare to UFC, imagine that.

 

[TSDTexan]

That's talk fight on paper, for what? Like I said in very detail, watch UFC, how many times there is a one punch knock out. If those elite fighters can't do that, why are we amateurs wasting time talking about it.

There is a world of difference between a highly trained professional and untrained thugs. Two highly trained fighters are not usually going to one shot each other. However, there is a skill gap between a bum or punk... And a pro.

There is a Russian who KOd a few guys with one hitter quiters. They didn't back off when they hurrassed his wife at a bar. You could say once is a fluke... But when it happens twice back to back.... In a street fight... What are you going to do? For one... You ain't going to mess with His wife.

Boxer takes out gang of Russian thugs after they harassed his wife

Nicolai Vlasenko, a professional boxer and martial arts expert, was caught on CCTV knocking out three of the thugs outside a bar in Starokorsunskaya, south-west Russia.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[TSDTexan]

There is a world of difference between a highly trained professional and untrained thugs.

There is a Russian who KOd a few guys with one hitter quiters. They didn't back off when they hurrassed his wife at a bar. You could say once is a fluke... But when it happens twice back to back.... In a street fight... What are you going to do? For one... You ain't going to mess with His wife.

Boxer takes out gang of Russian thugs after they harassed his wife

Nicolai Vlasenko, a professional boxer and martial arts expert, was caught on CCTV knocking out three of the thugs outside a bar in Starokorsunskaya, south-west Russia.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[TSDTexan]

Same with boxing. Very rare. Mike Tyson and George Foreman have done it, and that's the level you've got to be on. I wonder how many people here believe that they are on that level.

That's BS. A pro mma fighter (boxing was his base art) with a 1-1-0 record KOd two men back to back with just one hit each.

This one is on Russian CCTV, and is the best one that I could find of the video.

He is no where near Prime Tyson, or Foreman.
Word is they filed a lawsuit against the MMA fighter, and lost that too.

 

[TSDTexan]

Absolutely. The best way to handle multiple opponents is just to knock everyone out with single punches.

Correct. But you have to be a crazy Russian to pull it of.

 

[Alan0354]

Are we still talking about one punch KO a grappler or KO a street thug? Word grappler implies the person is TRAINED, not any thug on the street. Grappler to me means someone at least train in places like Gracie Jujitsu or equivalent.

 

[TSDTexan]

Are we still talking about one punch KO a grappler or KO a street thug? Word grappler implies the person is TRAINED, not any thug on the street. Grappler to me means someone at least train in places like Gracie Jujitsu or equivalent.

No. Look back at the OP question. That is the context. Kungfu Wang was asking "if you can train to KO with one hit, is training grappling even necessary, if your striking game is that strong?"

Shouldn't all ones efforts go towards trying to reach a very high bar.

A lot of people were scoffing at his question.
Kungfu Wang never said whether this was for compative sports or for street self defense. Or if you were trying to one punch KO a trained grappler or trained striker... I was merely point out that with enough training some people can KO with one hit.

But if I was having to put out a one hit knock out I would rather strike a wrestler or grappler instead of a boxer. The odds of hitting the former are far better than hitting the latter.

It would be good if Kungfu Wang clarified who was being KO'd. Is it a self defense setting or in a cage fight, with a well trained consensual opponent?

 

[JerryL]

All I can say is how often you see one punch knock out in UFC or Balletor?

Enough that someone made a "top 35" list The 35 Most Brutal One-Punch Knockouts

I believe the shortest UFC match was ~5 seconds ending in knockout.

If your point is "relying on getting a one-hit knockout is foolish", I agree. If your point is that they are extremely rare, I think that's overstating.

All that means is, regarding to the tittle of this thread, I assume the OP is a striker that don't know grappling and jujitsu. So it's like going back to the late 90s of UFC.......facing the grappler, you prey on one punch knock out before the opponent shoot and tackle you down. To answer this question, go back and watch the UFC fights in the late 90s and see how many succeeded in knocking the opponent out before being tackled. From my memory, DON'T BET ON IT.

I have a feeling that if we created a new sport where we added knives for everyone we'd see something similar.

Heck, if we just changed the existing floor to stone it would have an adverse effect on many popular techniques. I remember a reality show from a time back that had a bunch of MMA guys in the same house. A fight broke out. One went for the... is it a "standing arm bar"? The one where you grab the wrist with your ands and pull it across your chest, but with a standing opponent meaning you are putting your head on the floor)... his opponent simply pulled him up and slammed his head on the concrete before he could get the bar.

The technique was good, but the conditions were different and it was the wrong choice.

I recall a street fight that made it to camera with to South American MMA champs fighting some locals. One of the locals had a stick. He swung the stick at the MMA guy. The correct approach would have been to move in, but he didn't. I have to presume because his training is against unarmed people and backing up from a punch is appropriate. With this, it just left him in range to get swung at again, and he was, and he was struck in the head and lost.

UFC and other limited rules competitions absolutely exposed flaws in training methodology as well as fantasy approaches to combat; but the fact that people who trained with a specific set of rules succeeded better under those rules than those who trained with a different set is, well, a no brainer.

I suspect you and I agree more than we disagree here; but I do think your position is overly absolute.

 

[JerryL]

No. Look back at the OP question. That is the context. Kungfu Wang was asking "if you can train to KO with one hit, is training grappling even necessary, if your striking game is that strong?"

Let's rephrase the question.

Are you the most capable combatant you can be if your entire arsenal is that you are good at one-hit knockouts? Or are you a more capable combatant with a more rounded skillset?

I assert the latter based on three issues.

• The conditions of the fight are unknown (if the fight starts with you grabbed from behind, what now?)
• The law of diminishing returns. Your percentage chance of success will slow its climb towards 100%.
• You have only one shot. If you miss one attack (the first one), you lose the fight. Given a resisting opponent, even one not as skilled, the chances of failing to connect perfectly are high.

But by all means: Kunfu Wang is welcome to go take on MMA fighters and prove that his approach works.

 

[Flying Crane]

What can be the other path?

Um, all kinds of things that don’t involve getting into a ring. Nobody needs to compete, if that isn’t your interest.

 

[Urban Trekker]

That's BS. A pro mma fighter (boxing was his base art) with a 1-1-0 record KOd two men back to back with just one hit each.

This one is on Russian CCTV, and is the best one that I could find of the video.

He is no where near Prime Tyson, or Foreman.
Word is they filed a lawsuit against the MMA fighter, and lost that too.

Did some Googling, and it appears many people are under the impression that the guys who got knocked out were drunk. I don't think I can accept this video as proof of anything.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would disagree. But this is personal experience.

What is the thought process behind claiming there's more KO power in a bare-knuckle punch?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Of course this is not true in any absolute way. Sport is one path. It is not THE path. There are others.

And for some folks who include sport, it's still not the path, but a part of the path.