Dodge a punch vs. interrupt a punch

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
11,168
Reaction score
2,997
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Will it be nice that when you see a punch that's coming toward your face, instead of to dodge it, you throw a punch to interrupt it?

Advantage? You will not be put into defense mode, and you won't be afraid any punch (because you have strong anti-missile system).

- Your opponent throws a left jab (your opponent sends a missile).
- Your throw a right curved jab at the same time (you send out anti-missile).

Your right curved jab go over your opponent's arm, press his left arm down, your right punch then land on his face. Even if your 1st curved jab may only function as to knock your opponent's jab down, your 2nd curved jab can still land on his head (similar to a right low hook, followed by a right high hook).

You should not allow your opponent's fists to fly in front of your face. You should try to develop a strong "anti-missile system" to guard your air space.

Your thought?
 
Last edited:

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
9,409
Reaction score
3,432
Location
New York
Ideally if you are dodging a punch you should be doing some sort of action beyond that. Either getting distance so you ran reset if they're ahead of you on timing/overwhelming you, sending out your on strike in response, or getting close to clinch/grapple.
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
5,796
Reaction score
1,451
Sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both, sometimes neither (i.e. a parry). Why make it one tool over the other? The right tool (or combination of tools) at the right time is what's key.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
10,942
Reaction score
3,804
I do both. But rely more on interrupting a punch. Not so much like you stated but from the understanding that I can interrupt a punch by landing a punch
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
11,168
Reaction score
2,997
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Why make it one tool over the other?
- Simplify the fighting.
- Reduce training time.
- ...

If you concentrate, the successful rate to use a curved jab to knock down a jab/cross can be almost 100%. In my last class, we tested this for about 200 straight punches. Not even a single straight punch can go through the curved jab. There is no doubt that the successful rate is very high.

Anti-missile.

curved-jab1.jpg


Anti-missile + surface to surface missile.

curved-jab2.jpg
 
Last edited:

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
14,065
Reaction score
3,614
Location
San Francisco
- Simplify the fighting.
- Reduce training time.
- ...

If you concentrate, the successful rate to use a curved jab to knock down a jab/cross can be almost 100%. In my last class, we tested this for about 200 straight punches. Not even a single straight punch can go through the curved jab. There is no doubt that the successful rate is very high.

Anti-missile.

curved-jab1.jpg


Anti-missile + surface to surface missile.

curved-jab2.jpg
How did you test this on 200 punches? Were these with students/training partners? If these 200 punches were done in a drill format and not in the context of an actual fight, then the results are completely faulty, it is not a test at all. In a drill, the partner knows what is coming and is ready for it and has a much greater chance of success. It is not a valid measurement of the usefulness of the technique.

Drilling is an important exercise and does develop skill. But it is a cooperative exercise and cannot he used to state that X works better than Y.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
9,409
Reaction score
3,432
Location
New York
- Simplify the fighting.
- Reduce training time.
- ...

If you concentrate, the successful rate to use a curved jab to knock down a jab/cross can be almost 100%. In my last class, we tested this for about 200 straight punches. Not even a single straight punch can go through the curved jab. There is no doubt that the successful rate is very high.

Anti-missile.

curved-jab1.jpg


Anti-missile + surface to surface missile.

curved-jab2.jpg
That's only if you know the person is about to throw a straight punch. if they do something unexpected, it could mess this theory up. Dodging helps with that risk.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
11,168
Reaction score
2,997
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Drilling is an important exercise and does develop skill. But it is a cooperative exercise and cannot he used to state that X works better than Y.
It's not cooperative exercise when your opponent tries to knock you down.

For example, when your opponent holds a kicking shield and run toward you with full speed, you try to use a punch (or a kick) to stop his forward momentum. Your punch (or kick) can either stop his forward momentum, or his forward moment will run you down. I won't call that "cooperative exercise",

When your opponent tries to use

- jab and cross to knock you down, if you can stop his attack 200 times, there is some value for your testing (even if you know your opponent only uses jab and cross on you and nothing else).

- hip throw on you and you can stop him 200 times, there is some value for your take down defense (even if you know your opponent only uses hip throw on you and nothing else).
 
Last edited:

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
5,796
Reaction score
1,451
That's only if you know the person is about to throw a straight punch. if they do something unexpected, it could mess this theory up. Dodging helps with that risk.

Like a hook, a fake, a backfist...
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
11,168
Reaction score
2,997
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
That's only if you know the person is about to throw a straight punch. if they do something unexpected, it could mess this theory up. Dodging helps with that risk.
I don't know any other way to do this kind of testing.

When I use foot sweep at you for 200 times (I do intend to sweep you down), if you can escape all my 200 foot sweeps, does that mean your anti-sweep skill is good?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
9,409
Reaction score
3,432
Location
New York
I don't know any other way to do this kind of testing.

When I use foot sweep at you for 200 times (I do intend to sweep you down), if you can escape all my 200 foot sweeps, does that mean your anti-sweep skill is good?
It's good, but not as good as if I didn't know it was coming. It would be better if we were sparring, and you attempted a foot sweep when appropriate, among a bunch of other techniques. Then I can know if my anti-foot sweep skill is actually useful.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
11,168
Reaction score
2,997
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Like a hook, a fake, a backfist...
A: When I lay down on the ground, your hip throw will never work on me.
B: But I can mount on top of you with my ground skill.
A: But we are talking about defense for hip throw here.
B: ...

When we consider all possibilities, no MA discussion can make any sense.
 
Last edited:
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
11,168
Reaction score
2,997
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
It's good, but not as good as if I didn't know it was coming. It would be better if we were sparring, and you attempted a foot sweep when appropriate, among a bunch of other techniques. Then I can know if my anti-foot sweep skill is actually useful.
I agree that sparring is the best testing. IMO, that should be the next step. After students can use curved jab to stop 10,000 jab/cross, the 2nd step sparring test should be followed.
 
Last edited:

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
21,155
Reaction score
5,996
Ideally if you are dodging a punch you should be doing some sort of action beyond that. Either getting distance so you ran reset if they're ahead of you on timing/overwhelming you, sending out your on strike in response, or getting close to clinch/grapple.

The problem is that if you are committed to countering every shot you need predictable shots generally with power.

And to do that you need to bait your oponant in to that shot.

So the dodge becomes part of that game and also helps a bit with being able to find the right angle and range.

It all serves a purpose sort of.
 

_Simon_

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
3,622
Reaction score
1,979
Location
Australia
In Kyokushin we were taught a cool technique... as their punch comes out, you palm-heel the bicep of their punching arm.

Had it done to me a few times in sparring.

It

really

really

HURT.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
7,009
Reaction score
2,272
Location
Southeast U.S.
Will it be nice that when you see a punch that's coming toward your face, instead of to dodge it, you throw a punch to interrupt it?

Advantage? You will not be put into defense mode, and you won't be afraid any punch (because you have strong anti-missile system).

- Your opponent throws a left jab (your opponent sends a missile).
- Your throw a right curved jab at the same time (you send out anti-missile).

Your right curved jab go over your opponent's arm, press his left arm down, your right punch then land on his face. Even if your 1st curved jab may only function as to knock your opponent's jab down, your 2nd curved jab can still land on his head (similar to a right low hook, followed by a right high hook).

You should not allow your opponent's fists to fly in front of your face. You should try to develop a strong "anti-missile system" to guard your air space.

Your thought?
Are you familiar with the phrase "slipping a punch"? Conservation of energy comes to mind. Dodging sounds like it takes much more energy but is required to set yourself up into position sometimes. Slipping is torso/head movement just enough for the punch to miss. It takes practice and is hard to get okay with a punch getting that close, especially for a mainly out-fighter like me.
I suppose this is more of a long game mentality instead of trying to end a altercation quickly.
 
D

Deleted member 39746

Guest
You should learn to dodge with and without counter punching, and then apply situationally. Most of the time, i cant really see a reason not to counter strike unless you dont want to hurt them exessively or at all and deem it exessive. Or who ever set out policy deemed it exessive.

And rememeber, restomp the groin... Or dont.

You should not allow your opponent's fists to fly in front of your face. You should try to develop a strong "anti-missile system" to guard your air space.

As for this i agree, but you sort of forgot that you can premptively use phsycial force first. (now it depends where you live as to if it is explcitly lawful or not) But, if you cannot talk them down or evade the situation you should be the first one to take phsyical action and not be in the defensive in the first place in a ideal situation. Now physical action can be, punch them, restrain them or stun them long enough to run pending situation, or anything really. Your odds of winning if you use physical first force are usually quite good, much better than if you are on the defensive anyway.
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
14,065
Reaction score
3,614
Location
San Francisco
It's not cooperative exercise when your opponent tries to knock you down.

For example, when your opponent holds a kicking shield and run toward you with full speed, you try to use a punch (or a kick) to stop his forward momentum. Your punch (or kick) can either stop his forward momentum, or his forward moment will run you down. I won't call that "cooperative exercise",

When your opponent tries to use

- jab and cross to knock you down, if you can stop his attack 200 times, there is some value for your testing (even if you know your opponent only uses jab and cross on you and nothing else).

- hip throw on you and you can stop him 200 times, there is some value for your take down defense (even if you know your opponent only uses hip throw on you and nothing else).
A drill type exercise is not a test. When B knows what A is going to do over and over, then B will always be successful.

The drill is useful in developing the technique. That is simply practice. But it is not a test.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
11,168
Reaction score
2,997
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
In Kyokushin we were taught a cool technique... as their punch comes out, you palm-heel the bicep of their punching arm.
In long fist, we use an vertical upper block with palm push up under opponent's punching arm. Since it uses a line to deal with a line (not like the curved jab that use a curve to deal with a line), it may be useful in wrestling, but to use it in the striking art, the successful rate is not very high.

my-lien-bu-upper-block.gif
 

Latest Discussions

Top