Strengthening knee ligaments

Ivan

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A while ago I made a post in which I stated my concerns for my knees. I managed to soon after consult a physiotherapist in person, and I was diagnosed with patellofemoral knee syndrome. It's a very common injury in male athletes, which develops as a result of overworking/overtraining, and consists of mild discomfort and pain developing due to aggravation of tissues under the patella (kneecap), if I understand correctly. After I was diagnosed, I was given some exercises which helped me immensely, almost immediately. I was allowed to continue with my training, but I have learned to be more aware of what my body is experiencing, and how to hit the brakes a bit, not matter how guilty I might feel for it.

Yesterday, some of the pain returned, which is expeceted, as the issues can last for years. However, I have a have a tendency to really stress myself out about these things, and I assumed the worst immediattely, especially since some of the pain (though minor) was located in an unusual area. I managed to book an appointment with my physio again, God bless her (she's a miracle worker), for tomorrow just to be sure. ButI decided to look into some more serious issues when it comes to injuries in the knees.

At first it started off with a panicky self-diagnosis session :rolleyes:, but it then evolved into me planning for contigencies. I remembered how I came across a video a while ago that claimed some specific exercises were especially helpful for preventing damage to the tendons in the knees by strengthening them. Have any of you heard of any such exercises, specifically for the ACL and MCL ligaments in the knee?

I delved into some more research and found out that, although MCL tears usually heal on their own and rarely require surgery, ACL tears are much more serious. A complete ACL tea, supposedly, always requires reconstructive surgery. This got me thinking... ACL tears are most common in martial arts such as wrestling and BJ and Sambo, so how did ancient civilisations deal with? We all know ancient greeks were big on their Pankration, so how did they treat ligament injuries during those times? Given that it was probably a common injury, I am sure they must have researched treatments other than self-healing.

Have any of you heard of exercises specifically focused on strengthening knee ligaments? Do you believe they work? On a slightly different note, have any of you heard of someone making full/near-full recoveries from completely torn ACLs without surgery?
Anyways, wish me luck on my physio appointment tomorrow! Goodnight!
 

JowGaWolf

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but I have learned to be more aware of what my body is experiencing, and how to hit the brakes a bit, not matter how guilty I might feel for it.
This is what many of the old guys here have been saying for many years now.

so how did ancient civilisations deal with?
Stance training, tension training, and slow movement like Tai Chi. Rest and giving the body time to heal.

Have any of you heard of any such exercises, specifically for the ACL and MCL ligaments in the knee?
Stance training, tension training, and slow movement like Tai Chi (this is why many doctors prescribe Tai Chi to old people because it strengthens those areas that help support the ligaments.. Rest and giving the body time to heal.

Have any of you heard of exercises specifically focused on strengthening knee ligaments? Do you believe they work?
Stance training, tension training, and slow movement like Tai Chi. Rest and giving the body time to heal. Yes these things work. Are there other stuff out there? I'm sure there is. I only know about these.

have any of you heard of someone making full/near-full recoveries from completely torn ACLs without surgery?
No
 

WaterGal

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We all know ancient greeks were big on their Pankration, so how did they treat ligament injuries during those times? Given that it was probably a common injury, I am sure they must have researched treatments other than self-healing.

I listen to the medical history podcast "Sawbones", and ancient Greek medicine is a common joke on that podcast . Basically, if you had any medical problem, the ancient Greeks had a treatment for it, and it was hilariously weird.

So I looked it up, and Pliny the Elder (like the #1 ancient Greek doctor) says that "For the cure of sprains the following applications are used; wild boars' dung or swine's dung; calves' dung; wild boars' foam, used fresh with vinegar; goats' dung, applied with honey; and raw beef, used as a plaster." So, uh, I guess you could try that.
 

MadMartigan

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We all know ancient greeks were big on their Pankration, so how did they treat ligament injuries during those times? Given that it was probably a common injury, I am sure they must have researched treatments other than self-healing.
My guess for anything from 'ancient times'? I'm thinking your next match in the Colosseum was probably going to be your last. Doubt very much that sick days were a thing.
20210527_225844.jpg
 

RagingBull

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Bodyweight squats working up to "*** to grass" low. Later with a bar. Look at some countries in the world who still take a crap in a deep squat. No problems with flexibility or weak tendons. also the position is better for your colon when pushing out your poop.
so yeah...go back to what nature intened. deep squats holding that low position . Of course the Physio is more qualified than anyone on here as far as i know. as you yanky boys say..
just my 2 cents bro
 

drop bear

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There is a program called knees over toes that a few of our guys swear by.
 

RagingBull

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There is a program called knees over toes that a few of our guys swear by.
years ago people used to say do not squat below parallel or do not let your knees travel over your toes.
I actually have seen a medical report saying deeper squats spread stress over the knee cap cartilage. sounds negative but higher squat depths put more focused stress on one area of the cartilage.
as far as knees over the toes go look at Sissy squats. similar squats were done i believe in the Indian martial art Kalaripayattu.
 

Yokozuna514

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A while ago I made a post in which I stated my concerns for my knees. I managed to soon after consult a physiotherapist in person, and I was diagnosed with patellofemoral knee syndrome. It's a very common injury in male athletes, which develops as a result of overworking/overtraining, and consists of mild discomfort and pain developing due to aggravation of tissues under the patella (kneecap), if I understand correctly. After I was diagnosed, I was given some exercises which helped me immensely, almost immediately. I was allowed to continue with my training, but I have learned to be more aware of what my body is experiencing, and how to hit the brakes a bit, not matter how guilty I might feel for it.

Yesterday, some of the pain returned, which is expeceted, as the issues can last for years. However, I have a have a tendency to really stress myself out about these things, and I assumed the worst immediattely, especially since some of the pain (though minor) was located in an unusual area. I managed to book an appointment with my physio again, God bless her (she's a miracle worker), for tomorrow just to be sure. ButI decided to look into some more serious issues when it comes to injuries in the knees.

At first it started off with a panicky self-diagnosis session :rolleyes:, but it then evolved into me planning for contigencies. I remembered how I came across a video a while ago that claimed some specific exercises were especially helpful for preventing damage to the tendons in the knees by strengthening them. Have any of you heard of any such exercises, specifically for the ACL and MCL ligaments in the knee?

I delved into some more research and found out that, although MCL tears usually heal on their own and rarely require surgery, ACL tears are much more serious. A complete ACL tea, supposedly, always requires reconstructive surgery. This got me thinking... ACL tears are most common in martial arts such as wrestling and BJ and Sambo, so how did ancient civilisations deal with? We all know ancient greeks were big on their Pankration, so how did they treat ligament injuries during those times? Given that it was probably a common injury, I am sure they must have researched treatments other than self-healing.

Have any of you heard of exercises specifically focused on strengthening knee ligaments? Do you believe they work? On a slightly different note, have any of you heard of someone making full/near-full recoveries from completely torn ACLs without surgery?
Anyways, wish me luck on my physio appointment tomorrow! Goodnight!
Hey Ivan,

The good thing is that you post your workouts here. Review them and you may notice that a lot of the exercises you are doing can be exacerbating the problem. This is part of the reason why it has been suggested that you learn from a coach, sensei, kru or professional that can watch your form and correct technique. They can also guide you from their experience when these kinds of issues crop up. Now that this has been said one other area you can look at is how you warm up your knees before you exercise and how you cool them down after a workout. Make sure you are doing both when your current issue is resolved. Knee pain can come from a myriad of issues from continuously hyperextending the joint to improper foot position when throwing the technique. The fact you mentioned 'slamming' the brakes leads me to believe you are doing 'air kicks' with reasonable force to torque your root leg knee which may be a contributing factor but I am only guessing here. Haven't watched you train and cannot be sure but that would be my guess from what you said.

Good luck, get some rest and feel better soon.
 

isshinryuronin

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result of overworking/overtraining,
Ivan, Ivan, Ivan. Many of us have been cautioning you about this off and on for the past year. I will leave you with four words. When I was your age, these words were easy to ignore, but here they are: LISTEN TO YOUR ELDERS! :rolleyes: 色色...and don't roll your eyes at me!
 

JowGaWolf

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as far as knees over the toes go look at Sissy squats. similar squats were done i believe in the Indian martial art Kalaripayattu.
This isn't the same structure as the squats you are referring to. Any horse stance like squat you want to keep the knees from going over the toes. There are a lot of people who ignore this and end up suffering from knee pain. I used to see it all time with new students who didn't listen. They continued to have knee problems until they corrected their squat structure for horse stance.

Cat stance is a different structure where the knee goes over the toes. It just depends on the structure of the squat.
 

RagingBull

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This isn't the same structure as the squats you are referring to. Any horse stance like squat you want to keep the knees from going over the toes. There are a lot of people who ignore this and end up suffering from knee pain. I used to see it all time with new students who didn't listen. They continued to have knee problems until they corrected their squat structure for horse stance.

Cat stance is a different structure where the knee goes over the toes. It just depends on the structure of the squ

This isn't the same structure as the squats you are referring to. Any horse stance like squat you want to keep the knees from going over the toes. There are a lot of people who ignore this and end up suffering from knee pain. I used to see it all time with new students who didn't listen. They continued to have knee problems until they corrected their squat structure for horse stance.

Cat stance is a different structure where the knee goes over the toes. It just depends on the structure of the squat.
try doing sissy squats old school style. This idea of not going over the toes has been largly de-bunked in recent years.

 

RagingBull

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most people who train in martial arts can stop knee pains if they train properly & use some weight training. I know people who do cross fit & Martial arts. I used to work in a Gym. i have some experience in what i am saying.

Science has shown that the knees of healthy athletes are relatively safe in the bottom of a deep squat (2,6). There is no denying this research. As long as excessive loading is limited and good technique is used, the knees CAN and MUST move past the toes in the bottom of a squat in order to allow the hips to drop fully.
 

JowGaWolf

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try doing sissy squats old school style. This idea of not going over the toes has been largly de-bunked in recent years.

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Sissy squats do not have the same stucture that would would have from doing squats with a barbell on the back.
 

JowGaWolf

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Science has shown that the knees of healthy athletes are relatively safe in the bottom of a deep squat (2,6). There is no denying this research. As long as excessive loading is limited and good technique is used, the knees CAN and MUST move past the toes in the bottom of a squat in order to allow the hips to drop fully.
When I say that knees shouldn't go over past the toes, I'm referring to this. Posture. This forces the knees to do much of the lifting which causes the damage to the knee. When some one says "Knees over the toes" this is what they were referring to. It causes the weight to be centered over the knees that the ball of the feet
1622303407529.png
 

RagingBull

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When I say that knees shouldn't go over past the toes, I'm referring to this. Posture. This forces the knees to do much of the lifting which causes the damage to the knee. When some one says "Knees over the toes" this is what they were referring to. It causes the weight to be centered over the knees that the ball of the feet
View attachment 26850
It織s probably instability in the knee structures. Even pro football players or tennis players get knee problems. I think a well constructed weight training programme might help.
just my 2 cents bro ;)
 

JowGaWolf

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You have millions of people who have deep squats and you'll see it done by a variety of age groups as well. This position doesn't put the weight on the knees
1622304659858.png
 

jobo

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A while ago I made a post in which I stated my concerns for my knees. I managed to soon after consult a physiotherapist in person, and I was diagnosed with patellofemoral knee syndrome. It's a very common injury in male athletes, which develops as a result of overworking/overtraining, and consists of mild discomfort and pain developing due to aggravation of tissues under the patella (kneecap), if I understand correctly. After I was diagnosed, I was given some exercises which helped me immensely, almost immediately. I was allowed to continue with my training, but I have learned to be more aware of what my body is experiencing, and how to hit the brakes a bit, not matter how guilty I might feel for it.

Yesterday, some of the pain returned, which is expeceted, as the issues can last for years. However, I have a have a tendency to really stress myself out about these things, and I assumed the worst immediattely, especially since some of the pain (though minor) was located in an unusual area. I managed to book an appointment with my physio again, God bless her (she's a miracle worker), for tomorrow just to be sure. ButI decided to look into some more serious issues when it comes to injuries in the knees.

At first it started off with a panicky self-diagnosis session :rolleyes:, but it then evolved into me planning for contigencies. I remembered how I came across a video a while ago that claimed some specific exercises were especially helpful for preventing damage to the tendons in the knees by strengthening them. Have any of you heard of any such exercises, specifically for the ACL and MCL ligaments in the knee?

I delved into some more research and found out that, although MCL tears usually heal on their own and rarely require surgery, ACL tears are much more serious. A complete ACL tea, supposedly, always requires reconstructive surgery. This got me thinking... ACL tears are most common in martial arts such as wrestling and BJ and Sambo, so how did ancient civilisations deal with? We all know ancient greeks were big on their Pankration, so how did they treat ligament injuries during those times? Given that it was probably a common injury, I am sure they must have researched treatments other than self-healing.

Have any of you heard of exercises specifically focused on strengthening knee ligaments? Do you believe they work? On a slightly different note, have any of you heard of someone making full/near-full recoveries from completely torn ACLs without surgery?
Anyways, wish me luck on my physio appointment tomorrow! Goodnight!
they have given you exercises to do, do them, don't start doing other exercise to work your knee, that how you got into this in the first place, your not going to cure an over exercise injury by over exercising

i hate to have to say '' I told you so'' but in your thread about over exercising, but I did tell you so, let it heal first , then consider what if anything to do about it
 

JowGaWolf

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they have given you exercises to do, do them, don't start doing other exercise to work your knee, that how you got into this in the first place, your not going to cure an over exercise injury by over exercising

i hate to have to say '' I told you so'' but in your thread about over exercising, but I did tell you so, let it heal first , then consider what if anything to do about it
lol "I hate to have to say "I told you so. " The other jobo must be on vacation . lol.

Definitely good advice "They have given you exercises to do , do them."
 
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