On Using Kata for Self-Defense

[Makalakumu]

I've had some thoughts this morning that I wanted to share with everyone...

1. Reality changes and flows and that fixed patterns are impractical when woven into this framework. Kata, however, are training tools, not reality. One can imagine themselves doing technique with intent in kata, but this is not the same thing as a self-defense situation. It is training. Bunkai, are possibilities, things that could be done. The end result is that they train the reflexes so that they react to certain cues. This process eventually will occur without thought so that if something doesn't work, the body does something else.

2. The "mind of no mind" described above is not automatic. I don't know if you have played any other sports, but there are some insights with that training that are helpful. In baseball, learning how to catch a ball was the first step in learning how to play the field. In golf, learning how to hold the club and swing was a very important piece of playing the game. In wrestling, learning how to bridge was a foundation for number of things. In boxing, throwing a good jab is important. None of these things are the whole sport or art, but all of them required structure, repetition, and eventually situational adaptation in order to learn well enough to do without thought. Why should the forms be any different?

3. There needs to be a formalized way of teaching bunkai in kata in order to use it effectively as self defense. One must practice a move repeatedly in order to improve the technique and make it automatic. One must learn how to apply this automatic technique in a random situation correctly. One must learn to adapt so they can change to other things when something doesn't work. There are training methods for all of these things and I don't think that "playing with" certain applications every so often is going to achieve those ends by itself. It would be like walking up to a heavy bag and throwing a few punches and kicks once every week or so. That will not prepare someone (well) to actually punch and kick in reality.

4. An example of a formalized system for learning bunkai is the following...

a. The first thing a teacher must teach is a set of basics that corresponds to each kata. One that will allow a student to see and perform certain techniques therein and improve things like physical conditioning, balance, and efficiency of movement. Stances, transitions, punches, kicks, joint locks, throws, etc are all part of certain katas. This would be akin to throwing and catching a ball, swinging a bat, and running and sliding in baseball.

b. One learns the kata, memorizing the moves and details, and is able to perform it.

c. Traditional applications should be used as an example to teach anatomical knowledge and application mechanics...yet this information should be open ended. The student should eventually begin to "play" with the moves under the tutelage of the instructor, who gives insights into their multiple meanings. The teacher does not spoon-feed alternative applications, but rather gives clues and hints so that the student learns how to interpret the movements for themselves. The goal is for the student to learn the possibilities of each technique and understand their situational nature from a multifaceted point of view (this is the beauty of kata IMHO).

d. The true nature of kata is that they are a set of drills strung together by the creator so they can easily remember/transport/transfer practical knowledge regarding self-defense techniques. It is important for a student to eventually learn these because they provide a basis for understanding. Kata are not limited to these though (and I know many people who would disagree with that). Every student is different. They have different bodies and things work differently. The student must develop a set of drills that work with their body types...ones that they can practice repeatedly and relentlessly.

e. The student must learn how to apply in a "live" situation. Drills only take a student so far and eventually the student must transcend them. Application should "flow" from a student without thought and without hesitation and with no regard for "proper" context in the sense that one "waits" for certain things to happen. Drilled techniques need to be modified "on the fly" and altered to fit the situation at hand. This is a process of controlling the rules in sparring/randori/grappling and gradually removing them...but not removing so many that the training becomes overly dangerous.

5. There are many other ways of using kata and each will deliver certain results. However, if one believes that kata are a central part of an art and that they are useful for self-defense, a system that resembles what is outline above is needed in order to use them most effectively.

What do you think about this? Am I way off or am I onto something?

 

[beauty_in_the_sai]

I think kata is useful in many ways. First of all, it keeps the history and the art parts of martial arts intact. They are good for beginners to help them get a general feel for martial arts and help them learn techniques. Alot of the basics are in forms, and alot of black belts do well to remember the basics so we can teach them and the forms to beginners. If we were just to remove forms entirely, alot of the history and tradition would be taken out of martial arts.

As far as self defense goes though, I agree with upnorthkyusa. Forms have techniques in them to use in a real fight, but the actual form itself in it's entireity wouldn't work well in a fight. I don't think forms should be the base of an art or school, but merely a guide for beginners and a way to preserve history and tradition. I like forms, because they are like a meditation for me. I get lost in them and forget about life's worries. Really it just depends on what kind of martial artist you are and your personal preferences. I don't like fighting, but I know sparring is necessary for survival, just in case I do need to defend myself again. I like doing as my TKD instructor taught me. Some of the time, I take time for tradition and forms. Most of it though, I spend learning to defend myself effectively.

For those who would argue that forms are pointless because they wouldn't work in a real fight situation, I can see your side of it. I think it's nice to keep alittle tradition in the mix of things though and remember where the roots of our different arts came from.

There's my two cents.

Becky

 

[tshadowchaser]

The teacher does not spoon-feed alternative applications

I agree with this statement. Students need to learn to see and feel the different application for them slef

The true nature of kata is that they are a set of drills strung together by the creator so they can easily remember/transport/transfer practical knowledge regarding self-defense techniques

also to learn movement and correct posture

Reality changes and flows and that fixed patterns are impractical when woven into this framework

True that is why we must also learn to flow

The "mind of no mind" described above is not automatic

Not sure I completly agree here. Haveing done certian things that could have been called self defence befor I actualy became aware that I had done them tells me that one can get to the stage where reactions take place befor the concious mind is aware of the situation

 

[Makalakumu]

Not sure I completly agree here. Haveing done certian things that could have been called self defence befor I actualy became aware that I had done them tells me that one can get to the stage where reactions take place befor the concious mind is aware of the situation

This is actually what I was trying to say. In TSD, we call it mushin...where we do not have to think about techniques applied, they just happen. This is the "Mind of No Mind" that Miyamoto Musashi wrote about. It does not develop automatically no matter what someone does. Training is the only way to develop it.

 

[jdinca]

I think I see what you're getting at with the end result being different from what is expected from learning katas.

Kata ("the proper rule to follow"), to me is just that. This is where you are showing off your knowledge, ability and control to the nth degree. It must be exact, if it is to be done properly. It is also a big part of the "art" in martial arts. The moves do have purpose but it is part of a performance. Yes, it is going to look slightly different based on the person performing it but the movement is the same. As a result, it defintely teaches proper movement, positions, etc.

Another thing katas can help with is stamina. Done well, most katas can be quite energetic and can last up to a couple of minutes. Maintaining perfect form and detail can be physically challenging.

To me, what you're talking about is using katas as a way of teaching self defense and, as the student masters the movement, adapts that movement to his/her abilities and the situation. What I get from that is the end result is no longer a kata. It's self defense taught from a unique angle. I'm not sure if that would be more beneficial than using katas as an overall part of training to achieve your goal of adaptation and mind no mind.

I hope that's what you were looking for.

On a side note, one of the most interesting drills I've done is to do a kata as a mass attack with actual attackers. The end result is better understanding and better movement when performing the kata.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Kata is a funny thing.......it gets talked about by so many and is understood by so few.
i think that is one of the big problems with kata today. too many people stood around and werent really paying attention when the lessons were being taught, and now they're either trying to teach half the lesson, or they're missing the boat entirely and leaving kata by the wayside.
You mentioned something about learning to swing a bat at a baseball. is that a kata? no.
could you make a kata for swinging a bat to get perfect form......im sure you could.......now remove the bat and ball, what does the kata teach you about the rest of the baseball game? are there lessons to be learned from the kata that can be applied to other aspects of the game?
are there different systems of baseball that would view my kata and know i was practicing a different form of baseball?

kata contain the very essence of any particular ryu's form and their importance is sadly missed.

http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=646

 

[DeLamar.J]

Katas are for this, to teach you how to link together your techniques, and to make you think on your feet a little bit. Katas are another way to help you hone your martial arts skills.
When a boxer is shadow boxing, he is somewhat doing the same thing. Is is directly applicable on the street? No. Is kata? No.
Its another training tool to make you a better fighter.

 

[kroh]

Kata is a tricky thing for most who haven't had a good definition of how the Japanese see it.

The best way to correlate it to something in our culture is to compare it to our own Alphabet. Not a single one of us born and raised in this country have any trouble remembering that stupid song. The learning of the song would be the kata itself. Learning the base sounds of the individual letters would be the defining principles of the letters (bunkai). Our learning to vary certain sounds based on context and placement of other letters would be the variations (just like the word henka which refers to the variations used in kata). Finally we get to the defining principle of the letter that lets us use it in any situation ( oyo ). If we know how each letter operates at the core level we don't need some one showing us the many ways it works.

Now you wouldn't recite every letter until getting to the one you wanted, sound it out, and then save the sound in your head so that you could do the same for the next letter in the word. Reading like this would take you for ever and people like Stephen King would be out of a job. The same holds true for Kata in combat. You would not use kata in combat as it is only a blueprint for the fighting methods of a certain system. This is why many of the self proclaimed "tough guys" who say kata is worthless bang that drum so much. They just don't understand it's use in fighting. No biggie. Doesn't make one form of training better than another. Kata is just like having a trainer yelling out combo's. If you understand it then it is an excellent training tool.

You should not pull out a Ralph Macchio in the middle of a fight and start going through some form...

...You'll learn quickly that Kata has its place and it wasn't where you tried to use it.

Regards,
Walt

 

[Makalakumu]

I study TSD and most dojangs do not have a formalized system for teaching kata. Overall, the art is more of an amalgamation of many things. Yet my teacher taught kata well and I want to do the same.

I am a school teacher by trade, so actually teaching something is something I know quite a bit about. When I ask my teacher how he does what he does, his answers are very intuitive. He just sort of "flows" through class and everything is right. It is wonderful to be a student of a person like this, but very difficult to learn how to teach from this person.

What does everything think about the system for teaching kata I outlined above? What is missing?

 

[MJS]

Looks like you've made some very good points in your opening post. Having someone who can properly teach the meaning of a kata is key to the student being able to understand it fully. As for the movements being able to be used for self defense? Yes, it can be done. Of course, adding in moer sparring type training will also be a plus.

Mike

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i think that when teaching a kata there is only one way to do it, by rote.
have the students perform it over and over, and you, the teacher, correct it until it starts taking the form that it is supposed to have.
the form of the kata, (and by form i dont mean the movements or sequence, i mean correct form) like how to do blocks and kicks correctly, is the ultimate goal of kata......that is the art.......the combinations are the art.
when teaching bunkai......teach wrong before you teach right........so the student can see the difference.
teach the student how to break things down themselves........

You need to sit back and ask yourself if what you're teaching from the kata is practical or just the obvious.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Kata's are prearrange fighting......real fighting is totally "Chaos"...no rules and anything goes.

How does Kata's prepare you for this. Have you best Kata performer fight in a sparring routine? than fight in a real fighting sitution? See if they can still survive? w/ NO rules and anything goes.....

Yes kata's have a function.....so does push-ups and sit-ups.....Aloha

 

[MJS]

Kata are but one piece of the puzzle. Of course nobody is going to use a kata to fight, in the sense of replicating exact movements, but moves/applications in the kata are an asset to the student.

 

[Danny T]

F-D-A
Form
Drill
Application

Kata = Form
Drill = Using the movements, transitions, with timing and positions
Application = executing the movements utilizing many different possibilites - this may not look anything like the kata or the drills.

Danny Terrell

 

[kroh]

F-D-A
Form
Drill
Application

Kata = Form
Drill = Using the movements, transitions, with timing and positions
Application = executing the movements utilizing many different possibilites - this may not look anything like the kata or the drills.

Danny Terrell

That is a very good way to look at that.
Regards,
Walt

 

[jsdduke]

Kata should be no different than the learning of self-defense techniques (pre-arranged responses to an attack). By learning the applications of A,B,C,D or steps 1,2,3,4 of a technique you may not actually like or prefer a technique,but there may be certain elements or principles that you might use in an actual situation.