old school martial arts
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I guess it depends on the context and intent, but probably not in many cases.
Thanks for the question mark, by the way.
Interesting question.
It's a different time now than it was when they were more common in the old "back in the day" kind of thing. Back then, without the communications options of today, social media and such, nobody really knew or cared about them. Martial Arts schools weren't common and nobody really paid much attention to them. And lawyers were never involved in the aftermath, ever.
Today, though, boy, would they cause complications for all involved.
It's a different time now than it was when they were more common in the old "back in the day" kind of thing. Back then, without the communications options of today, social media and such, nobody really knew or cared about them. Martial Arts schools weren't common and nobody really paid much attention to them. And lawyers were never involved in the aftermath, ever.
Today, though, boy, would they cause complications for all involved.
I know that Kung Fu Wang is a fan, no idea why.
Is there a way to tag someone so they get a notification? I'd like to know the reasoning behind it, and don't know if he'll read this.
Is there a way to tag someone so they get a notification? I'd like to know the reasoning behind it, and don't know if he'll read this.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
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Yes. I've even participated in a couple over the years. Typically it's some meathead coming off the street looking to embarrass a black belt. Occasionally the instructor will feed them lower belts. If the meathead still wishes to continue, then a black belt will oblige.
However, we have had some other martial artists walk in trying to cause trouble.
However, we have had some other martial artists walk in trying to cause trouble.
Still goes on to this day? Some things never change. Makes me fell all "bwahaha" inside.
Some meathead coming off the street. God, I so love that. I know, I know, it's wrong, but one does need some comic relief from time to time.
Ain't Martial arts just grand?
In the old days (before there were any MMA gyms),
- you walked into a Karate school,
- watched their class,
- at the end of the class, you meet one of their students in the parking lot,
- you asked him if he is willing to spar with you outside of his class.
If you asked him politely, and if he said no, there won't be any hard feeling. If he said yes, you found yourself a sparring partner. You can build up your "fighting club" this way and test your MA skill against people from many different MA systems.
Today, you don't need to do that any more. You just test your skill in local MMA gyms.
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Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Ah, you kids today, you think what you're discussing is "old school martial arts"? Ha! Talk to me about taryu jiai, and we might start to get to it…
@kempodisciple … yes, there is...
@kempodisciple … yes, there is...
RTKDCMB
Senior Master
I challenge myself on a daily basis.
Do I believe they existed? I guess so. I understand the notorious 'Count Dante' organization did them from time to time, at least one person dying as a result.
Do I think they're a good idea? No.
I'm a martial artist, not a cartoon character.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I don't remember there being challenges back in the old days (talking over 40 years ago), well outside of my Sansei getting annoyed with a senior student and asking him to stand up and spar at the end of class.
I remember a lot of friendly sparring matches but no real challenges. My Japanese Jiujutsu sensei would be invited to other schools (karate, Judo, Kung Fu) from time to time to demo and maybe spar, but no challenge as I tend see them these days rife with style bashing, insults and threats.
I use to be a part of a cross style sparing group (about 20 years ago) and we beat the living daylights out of each other, but it was all fun and no one was challenged. Had a couple closet ninjas and Kung Fu "Grandmasters" show up talking tough, but they always seemed to vanish shortly after the sparing started. But I never thought of any of it as a challenge, it was all a whole lot of fun and one of the best learning experiences of my MA training.
I will say this abuot my Jiujutsu Sansei though...he did tell us that is ever sparing a karate guy, use the Deashibarai, gets em' every time
They apparently happened, at least once or twice in real life.
The Life and Death of the Deadliest Man Alive
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I don't doubt they did and I know if you go further back they most definitely happened, I don't need to be shown proof of it. I am saying, in my experience, in my area of the world at the time, I do not remember them occurring.
Well, no you don't. MMA gyms are focussed on training not challenging each other, the challenges there are with yourself. Go into an MMA gym and start 'testing' yourself against people there will get you thrown out with much derision. Join one with the intention of learning new techniques, trying out your fitness and sparring sensibly ( that can be hard but is always controlled, it's usually how the coach says it has to be done, no wild attacks nor going for broken limbs and KOs) then you will be welcome. Please don't spread these stupid ideas that MMA gyms are some sort of jungle where everyone is hyped up on beating each other up.
Charlemagne
Black Belt
Agreed.
To be fair, however, things were not always that way. In the past it was not uncommon for MMA gyms to have this vibe. I know of places that openly stated on their website that they welcomed all challenges from other gyms, and I have personally trained at a place where I rolled for a month with little to no instruction. After proving I could hang for a while, the instruction began, but I was already soured on the experience and left soon after. That same place had an open mat on weekends that persons from other clubs were welcome to attend for the purpose of challenge sparring. This was in 2009, so it wasn't exactly the Dark Ages.
MMA is much more mainstream today, and as such, kids and women are training in it as a form of fitness and self defense. MMA gyms have had to adapt their culture to this trend, and as long as realism is kept up, I see this as a very good thing. Now that people can review everything online (etc.), it is bad business for any martial arts group to allow this. Today I think the average person could go to a reputable MMA club with little to no fear of this happening.
Perhaps it's just the UK and Europe but MMA gyms here have always been small and actually friendly, I've been in MMA for over 16 years and haven't known anywhere that had 'challenges, but then I have been around even longer in TMA and haven't know it happen there either. Not many of ours would have had websites in 2009 lol. MMA is very small here even with the advent of the UFC and more publicity, we don't even have a governing body. Most of the early if not all were TMA and Kickboxing instructors so a lot of the TMA structure was still used in the MMA gyms. It's changed a lot now in that the emphasis is all about training MMA and the gyms I know are very serious about it, again though we have very few fulltime professional MMA gyms, most will offer TMA's as well, to pay the rent. MMA here is still mostly for fights, children rarely train it nor sadly women though we've worked hard to get more women into it. Women and children still go to mainstream martial arts clubs, we don't have many professional ones of them either, most are non profit. There's a couple of chains but the instructors still have day jobs. Martial arts of any type isn't a career or full time job here except for a few very lucky ones and it is just a few.
I've never seen or been involved in a challenge anywhere I've trained. And I've trained in some places where you think it would occur.
One place was located right next door to a rowdy bar back in the 70's . Not once did anyone walk in and **** talk or challenge.
Not saying it has never happened, but not in my experience.
One place was located right next door to a rowdy bar back in the 70's . Not once did anyone walk in and **** talk or challenge.
Not saying it has never happened, but not in my experience.
I was once challenged by a Sage to a wisdom contest. I didn't fare too well...
Balrog
Master of Arts
I've only had one of them in my career. He walked in, asked for the head guy, then told me he wanted to challenge me for ownership of the school.
I started laughing and said, "Dude, you've been watching too many cheezy kung-fu movies late at night. You want my school, get out your checkbook and buy it from me." He left.
