Obama to end Don't Ask, Don't Tell

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Carol

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Do men and women in the military still have separate showers and latrines? Why was that practice started in the first place?

Depends on where you are my friend. My cousin's husband is on his fourth tour and he's shared a cardboard box (makeshift latrine) with men and ladies alike. ;)
 

searcher

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Makes me wonder how many more of the groups that helped him get elected is he going to tick off BEFORE he gets sworn in next week.


And many of us thought Wild Billy C. changed his opinions a bunch. This guy is going to set a record.
 

Carol

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But what is wrong with being covered in baby oil and whipped by someone in a leather g-string?

Well, skin eruptions for one. Sunflower oil works much better...plus its a great massage oil ;)
 

Bob Hubbard

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Is that really a concern for military brass? I mean, do the expect the 1st squad to set up a gay bath house after securing a building, or a pilot to be distracted by phallus shaped roofs or something?

Found this btw, been floating around a while. Seem to fit.
 

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Carol

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Is that really a concern for military brass? I mean, do the expect the 1st squad to set up a gay bath house after securing a building, or a pilot to be distracted by phallus shaped roofs or something?

No, its more a concern about alienating potential recruits, that are often hesitant and nervous about joining the military to begin with...and are often from areas that have traditionally not held a progressive view of homosexuality.
 

Bob Hubbard

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Yes. It makes sense. Be not afraid of bullets, nor bombs, but cover your *** in case of buggery. How stupid.
Sorry, I just find the policy asinine.
 

Makalakumu

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It's not the policy. It's the idiots who need the policy. This is about marketing. Carol's post stabbed the issue right to the heart.
 

Twin Fist

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no, she really didnt. It may be true, in fact i think it is true that marketing comes into play, but that isnt the reason for the ban.

having been in the service, 2 branches in fact, I can speak to this prob better than ANYONE can that hasnt been

and here is the rub, and sorry, but i am gonna say it.

If you havnt been in the military, you really ought to zip it on this subject, since your knowledge is too limited to make an educated decision about it

it doesnt matter what we LIKE to think, as elections have undeniably proven the fact is that most people still disapprove of homosexuality on a very basic level.

thats a given, you can argue it, but the facts speak for themselves.

it is a given that life in the military is a close quarters life.

Serve on a ship sometime. We had 18 people living in a 30X20 room. Over 120 people shared 4 showers and 4 toilets.

Now how many of you would tell the military to force a woman into that environment with men?

If you are not willing to FORCE women to live co-ed with men, you are being hypicritical by saying men should be forced into that environment with openly gay men.same with women and lesbians.

You can say "get over yourself, they dont want you" all you want. You can say "misbehavior will be punished, people just have to behave"

Are you willing to FORCE women to share quarters with men?

if not, then you need to re-think your stance on this subject.


me? I am ok with the ban going away. But then I am ok with making women live co-ed with men. ONE set of standards, ONE set of rules, ONE set of showers, ONE set of bunks.
 

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As I was in our military I guess I'm entitled to an opinion then! Frankly it's all a fuss about nothing, as I said before we've had gays legally in the military for 8 years now and if someone is telling me that the American service people can't be as adult as British service people about this I'd be very surprised.

About ten years ago there was a survey done in the services asking about attitudes to homosexuality, the results were that the men didn't approve of male homosexuality but weren't bothered by it as long as they weren't approached by gays. On the subject of female homosexuality they weren't bothered by it as long as they could watch. Seriously! the top brass were a bit discomforted by this but they should have known what squaddies were like!
 

Twin Fist

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Hey irene
I believe that about the british military

but we aint talking about the British

different country
different culture

like the British and Australian rules for alcohol on ships.

it works for you guys, wouldnt work for us.
 

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The military is a conservative organization, anyone who is homosexual should be quiet about it. They often live in bunks, sleep very close to one another, take showers close together, having a gay nearby would make some uncomfortable. In some branches, like the Marine Corps, the gay would likely get his butt kicked every day. Serve honorably but be quiet about your homosexual orientation I say.
 

Carol

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Serve on a ship sometime. We had 18 people living in a 30X20 room. Over 120 people shared 4 showers and 4 toilets.

Now how many of you would tell the military to force a woman into that environment with men?

If you are not willing to FORCE women to live co-ed with men, you are being hypicritical by saying men should be forced into that environment with openly gay men.same with women and lesbians.

Not the same thing. If you go with the NIH figures that 3% of men and 1.5% of women are gay, then out of those 120 men, chances are 116 of them are attracted to women.

No, I didn't serve (not that I didn't try...LOL)
 

Twin Fist

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No Darlin, it is exactly the same thing.

Why wouldnt most women serve in co-ed berthing? they would be uncomfortable getting dressed next to someone that MIGHT see them as a sexual object

it is exactly the same with men and gay men

in fact it is worse, cuz at least with women and men, the attraction is natural. many people, feel at a very basic level that homosexuality is in fact unnatural.

so you got DOUBLE the feeling of un-ease

I gotta disagree Carol
 

Tez3

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The military is a conservative organization, anyone who is homosexual should be quiet about it. They often live in bunks, sleep very close to one another, take showers close together, having a gay nearby would make some uncomfortable. In some branches, like the Marine Corps, the gay would likely get his butt kicked every day. Serve honorably but be quiet about your homosexual orientation I say.

I have to say something about men at this point...how typical arrogant of them to think they are attractive in the first place! You find this with the guy with the beer belly and bad breath trying to chat a girl up and not understanding he's just not attractive. Oh and of course men and women can't be friends nor can gay men be friends with men because well, they'll just want to get them all in bed right? Wrong!
Sharing accomodation doesn't mean a gay man is thinking anything sexual about his room mates at all, and do you know something his room mates accept that! The gay man isn't a stranger to them, he's someone who's been through the same training, been shot at by the same enemies, watched the same friends die and be blown to pieces. That makes a stronger bond between them than any sexual attraction. In fact its that bond between comrades that makes life difficult for them 'outside' with their families.

TF why wouldn't it work for you? Are your service people less mature, less intelligent? I can't believe that. Your troops have no problems with gays when serving with ours.
 

Tez3

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No Darlin, it is exactly the same thing.

Why wouldnt most women serve in co-ed berthing? they would be uncomfortable getting dressed next to someone that MIGHT see them as a sexual object

it is exactly the same with men and gay men

in fact it is worse, cuz at least with women and men, the attraction is natural. many people, feel at a very basic level that homosexuality is in fact unnatural.

so you got DOUBLE the feeling of un-ease

I gotta disagree Carol


What happens when men and women serve to gether and share accomodations etc is the opposite of sexual attraction. They stop seeing each other as members of the opposite sex and they just become colleagues. I've seen a few relationships break up because of that. Well look at marriage, after a while if you're not careful you start taking each other for granted etc. It's not a joke that sex stops in a marriage after 2 years lol!
 

Carol

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well, if you are still interested in supporting the troops, I am pretty sure I still have some of my uniforms around here someplace.....

Now its my turn to swoon ;)
 

Twin Fist

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irene
does the british military force women and ment o share berthing space on ships?


What happens when men and women serve to gether and share accomodations etc is the opposite of sexual attraction. They stop seeing each other as members of the opposite sex and they just become colleagues. I've seen a few relationships break up because of that. Well look at marriage, after a while if you're not careful you start taking each other for granted etc. It's not a joke that sex stops in a marriage after 2 years lol!
 

elder999

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. It's not a joke that sex stops in a marriage after 2 years lol!


Pretty sure it is. A joke, that is... Sex just keeps getting better, or it isn't any kind of marriage, is it? Or any kind of sex, anyway.... :lol:

That said, I think you're probably right. While I was denied the opportunity to serve myself, I often work in close contact with members of the military. From what I've seen of them-while there probably would be instances of people being attracted to each other and acting on it, just as I'm sure there are in the British military-for the most part, the job and protocol would tend to get in the way of such things.
 
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