Obama to end Don't Ask, Don't Tell

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nolerama

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,227
Reaction score
71
Location
St. Louis, MO
Barack Obama to end US army's 'don't ask, don't tell' policy towards gays

President-Elect Barack Obama will end the "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards gays in the military as part of moves to sweep away remnants of the Bush era.



By Alex Spillius in Washington
Last Updated: 6:15AM GMT 15 Jan 2009


[Article]
 

CoryKS

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
4,403
Reaction score
183
Location
Olathe, KS
"Don't ask, don't tell" is a remnant of the Bush era? Really? Huh.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
Is there anyone other than me that thinks its curious that Don't Ask Don't Tell was President Clinton's first major move upon taking office, and now it is shaping up to be President-Elect Obama's first major move in office?
 

tellner

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,379
Reaction score
240
Location
Orygun
Sounds like a plan. As Barry Goldwater said about gay troops "They don't have to be straight. They just have to shoot straight."
 

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
1,451
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
The policy is a relic of the Bill Clinton era; it was adopted in 1993.


Actually, the policy was the culmination of a few things, not the least of which was the military's absolute schizophrenia over this particular (non) issue. Look up "queen for a day" if you want a real laugh...

THe government had concluded as early as 1957 that homosexuality didn't constitute any kind of security risk, and over the years there had been a few court challenges to the DOD "heterosexuals only" policy. Additionally, in 1992 the GAO had their own investigation, and reached the same conclusions as the 1957 report. Bill Clinton had campaigned on simply opening the military to gays, but there was wide resistance, and "don't ask don't tell" was a compromise, crafted by Colin Powell. The moves toward it, however, began during Bush I's administration, and even before then......
 

Gordon Nore

Senior Master
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
77
Location
Toronto
...Bill Clinton had campaigned on simply opening the military to gays, but there was wide resistance, and "don't ask don't tell" was a compromise, crafted by Colin Powell. The moves toward it, however, began during Bush I's administration, and even before then......

Agreed. It's not a Bush legacy. Clinton raised the issue, but backed down. It wasn't so much a policy as a retreat.
 

tellner

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,379
Reaction score
240
Location
Orygun
It's very Catch-22.

"We have to kick out the homosexuals and revoke their security clearances."
"Why?"
"Because they're security risks."
"Why are they security risks?"
"Because if anyone found out we'd kick them out and take away their security clearances."
"..."
 

Twin Fist

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
7,185
Reaction score
210
Location
Nacogdoches, Tx
Of ocurse Obama has gona back on SO MANY THINGS he said he was gonna do that we dont really know if he will follow through on this one,

judging by his record of saying and doing, it prob wont happen

I hope it does tho.

We had 2 gay dudes on my ship, one never had a problem, even though everyone knew, the other one fell up a stairway a couple dozen times.

wanna guess the difference?

one never made it anyone's business, the other one climbed into someone's bunk un-invited.

I still say that if you really want to be FAIR- you have to tell everyone, male and female that they have to share bathrooms, showers and bunk space.

If men are gonna be told they have share facilities with someone that might find them sexually attractive, then you should be willing to tell females the same thing.

fair DOES mean equal after all, and equality isnt always nice
 

Gordon Nore

Senior Master
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
77
Location
Toronto
Is there anyone other than me that thinks its curious that Don't Ask Don't Tell was President Clinton's first major move upon taking office, and now it is shaping up to be President-Elect Obama's first major move in office?

In Clinton's case I think it was an overture. It made him look bold, but he caved pretty quick. I thought it was ingeniously strategic that he could could simultaneously appeal to equal rights and military conservatism.

That said, I suspect sixteen years later that many Americans have changed their minds on this issue and would like to move forward. I was listening to some pundits on CNN yesterday, saying, Oh, this is the wrong time. It's a distraction. It'll disrupt the unit. Yadda yadda.

How exactly does one distract an in-country soldier contending with IEDs, insurgents, terrorists and the like? I suspect they're pretty focused.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
In Clinton's case I think it was an overture. It made him look bold, but he caved pretty quick. I thought it was ingeniously strategic that he could could simultaneously appeal to equal rights and military conservatism.

That said, I suspect sixteen years later that many Americans have changed their minds on this issue and would like to move forward. I was listening to some pundits on CNN yesterday, saying, Oh, this is the wrong time. It's a distraction. It'll disrupt the unit. Yadda yadda.

How exactly does one distract an in-country soldier contending with IEDs, insurgents, terrorists and the like? I suspect they're pretty focused.

As the aunt of an 18 year-old serving in the Army National Guard, I concur.
 

MA-Caver

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
14,960
Reaction score
312
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Is there anyone other than me that thinks its curious that Don't Ask Don't Tell was President Clinton's first major move upon taking office, and now it is shaping up to be President-Elect Obama's first major move in office?
Typical politicans... the ole "in and out"...

I still say that if you really want to be FAIR- you have to tell everyone, male and female that they have to share bathrooms, showers and bunk space.

If men are gonna be told they have share facilities with someone that might find them sexually attractive, then you should be willing to tell females the same thing.

fair DOES mean equal after all, and equality isnt always nice
So we're going to try for the ole' Starship Troopers scene? Sorry, but I don't think we're facist enough... but we're getting there.
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,573
Reaction score
456
Location
Terre Haute, IN
This is great news. Based on my experiences with officers and cadets, I foresee few problems (though I'm sure there will be a few high-profile unfortunate incidents).

As to Bill Clinton, he improved things...but not nearly as much as he should have.
 

sgtmac_46

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
4,753
Reaction score
189
Sounds like a plan. As Barry Goldwater said about gay troops "They don't have to be straight. They just have to shoot straight."

It personally doesn't bother me......the Theban Sacred Band apparently were fine enough soldiers.......there's no reason homosexuals can't serve more than adequately (since they already have been this entire time).

It's all irrelevant anyway, as the left will gut the military before it's all said and done.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
Personally I'm glad to see the policy go. A good soldier will make a good soldier regardless of their orientation, and an unwanted sexual advance is an unwanted sexual advance, regardless of whether the aggressor is of the same gender as the victim.

However, I do think that this was too much of a nod to the Clinton election. Remember "Its the economy, stupid" and all the hopes that were on the Clinton presidency, and what his first step would be? His first step was "Don't ask don't tell" and seen as a softball. Sound familiar?

Its too orchestrated. This isn't Barack Obama taking control, this is Rahm Emmanual pulling the strings.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
Being gay in the forces was legalised in 2000 here and it really doesn't bother anyone. Accomodation is in single rooms or flats so what anyone gets up to is their own business. If same sex partners get married they are entitled to a married quarter just the same as a male/female couple.
The things causing the biggest problems are the same for everyone, back to back tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, poor kit, government etc etc. No one cares about other peoples sex lives probably because the squaddies are fairly amoral to start with when it comes to sex lol!
 
OP
N

Nolerama

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,227
Reaction score
71
Location
St. Louis, MO
Its too orchestrated. This isn't Barack Obama taking control, this is Rahm Emmanual pulling the strings.

I'm waiting for the fecal matter to hit the fan with Obama (Rahm Emmanuel)... I just know it's going to happen, regardless of the fact that I voted for the man. There got to be a skeleton or ten in his closet. He's a US President.

I fully agree with you Carol. A good soldier is a good soldier, regardless of sexual orientation. And an unwanted sexual advance is an unwanted sexual advance, regardless of sexual orientation.

I'd like to think that we've advanced enough as a society to not really put someone's sexual orientation out there as a deciding factor on their validity in a life, unit, and military.
 

The Last Legionary

All warfare is based on deception.<br><b>nemo malu
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
1,041
Reaction score
98
Location
Isle de la Moros
I can't shoot him, he's faaaaabulas! I mean, look at that bum. Oh, hold my rifle, I need to calm douwn!

Maybe that's what they're afraid of. How could they fight a war if everyone was having erotic fantasies? I mean, the army has gone to hell after letting women in, hasn't it.
 

Gordon Nore

Senior Master
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
77
Location
Toronto
I can't shoot him, he's faaaaabulas! I mean, look at that bum. Oh, hold my rifle, I need to calm douwn!

Maybe that's what they're afraid of. How could they fight a war if everyone was having erotic fantasies? I mean, the army has gone to hell after letting women in, hasn't it.

TLL,

Here's the real deal, dudes are afraid of being treated by other dudes the same way they treat women.
 

crushing

Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
5,082
Reaction score
136
Do men and women in the military still have separate showers and latrines? Why was that practice started in the first place?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top