non-telegraph without loosing power, to what extent can training keep power?

[Fungus94]

it doesn't take a PhD to know how to hammer a nail, though for some it can be an intriguing study.

Some of us can't bring ourselves to just hammer the nail without requiring and understanding of both the hammer and the nail, and the context both. Probably something is wrong with me, but i have to live with it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

"Hiding Movement Within Movement" to create non-telegraphed attacks.

You can always hide your power generation of the current move at the end of your previous move. Fo example, use a jab to set up a cross.

 

[Fungus94]

Learn the K-1 lightweight champion's back kick!

May 25, 2024
Yuki Yoza

At 7:05, Yuki, Kyokushin and highly ranked kickboxer, shows a feint and “kick the ground firmly when you land...”

Great link!

This is an excellent combo, in fact i've trained that specifically alot on the heavy bag. It is the kind of kick that works well for my back and it does not require much flexibility. Initiating the back kick just as you land the first kick and bound from it is great.

Usually the feint is also that as you kick of the ground, you trick them you are loading up for a second supercharge low kick. But instead you trow a turning back kick - or ushiro mawashi geri on the other side.

 

[Fungus94]

The feeling I have when i throw this kick is almost like a curve kick and looking at the bag swind the peak force is not perpendicular but beeing say 30-45 degrees off. This way I have tons of power, and maximum stability, and my joins are safe, even if the target does not give in.

Part of this is just terminology, but I stumbled over this naming, something this TKD guy lables a "sword" kick, like a hybrid between ushiro mawashi geri and axe kick, that is is getting closer to my preferred power version of ushiro mawashi...

Except I don't use the edge of hte foot, I used the heel, so it's like a hammer instead of sword, but having both a slight forward + downward thrust as compare to the pure horizontal ushiro mawashi geri. I think this version is more robust for body kicks, and the "classic ushiro mawashi" seems optmized specifically for hitting the jaw (without stopping).

Its amazing so see that all the off-standard or personalized versions of kicks actually have their own names in other styles.

 

[HighKick1]

Part of this is just terminology, but I stumbled over this naming, something this TKD guy lables a "sword" kick, like a hybrid between ushiro mawashi geri and axe kick, that is is getting closer to my preferred power version of ushiro mawashi...

Except I don't use the edge of hte foot, I used the heel, so it's like a hammer instead of sword, but having both a slight forward + downward thrust as compare to the pure horizontal ushiro mawashi geri. I think this version is more robust for body kicks, and the "classic ushiro mawashi" seems optmized specifically for hitting the jaw (without stopping).

Its amazing so see that all the off-standard or personalized versions of kicks actually have their own names in other styles.

I agree it is simply putting a ‘name’ on something that has been around for a long time.
Personally, I liken it more to an often used variety of a wheel kick when a person is playing the distance game. Others will say it is just a common variance on a crescent kick, which I cannot disagree with.
What I think is most important for a person who is really competing OR fighting to understand is that some/most kicks will not be executed perfectly or exactly the way you practice them. Your better dang we’ll be able to roll with this and still execute an effective kick.

 

[Fungus94]

Personally, I liken it more to an often used variety of a wheel kick when a person is playing the distance game.

For me, a version of this "sword kick" emerged for me as what offered me the optimal power and balance when practiging and leg/hip level on heavy bag. I trained this alot and struggled with many "versions" to find my optimal power for a long time, probably a year, that is also a compromise for my back. To kick a jaw I think this would not be ideal. I tried this in sparring but gently and and it was deceptive as the usually expect a head kick, but then as it hits the liver/hip/leg while their hands are up.

When only listening to the heavy bag, power and your balance is the only feedback. And I do not get as much energy into the bag with the horizontal version, and the axe kick doesnt work well on a tall heavybag when using the heels. So perhaps the training method (heavybag only) also favours a certainl version of the kick.

The is only one problem with this kick for me, and it's that it's not fast enough.

But if was a bit fun to see that people gave it a name. For me while they are indeed versions or hybrids of a spectrum of kicks, I think each version needs to be trained as if it was a seperate technique, it's how i feel at least.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Part of this is just terminology, but I stumbled over this naming, something this TKD guy lables a "sword" kick, like a hybrid between ushiro mawashi geri and axe kick, that is is getting closer to my preferred power version of ushiro mawashi...

Except I don't use the edge of hte foot, I used the heel, so it's like a hammer instead of sword, but having both a slight forward + downward thrust as compare to the pure horizontal ushiro mawashi geri. I think this version is more robust for body kicks, and the "classic ushiro mawashi" seems optmized specifically for hitting the jaw (without stopping).

Its amazing so see that all the off-standard or perso nalized versions of kicks actually have their own names in other styles.

Seeing the kick for the first time my initial thought is that it wouldn't have much power. I kept watching the video, hoping to see him actually kick the bag with it, demonstrating its power but he used the bag mostly as a visual aid. I did see him make contact once, but it seemed to be just a brushing action with the sole of his foot. Interesting that he never delivered a real kick into the bag. I wonder why? Maybe my initial reaction was correct. It may have its uses as part of a combo, but as a stand-alone move I see it as a tool one could do without.

 

[Fungus94]

Seeing the kick for the first time my initial thought is that it wouldn't have much power. I kept watching the video, hoping to see him actually kick the bag with it, demonstrating its power but he used the bag mostly as a visual aid. I did see him make contact once, but it seemed to be just a brushing action with the sole of his foot. Interesting that he never delivered a real kick into the bag. I wonder why? Maybe my initial reaction was correct. It may have its uses as part of a combo, but as a stand-alone move I see it as a tool one could do without.

I totally agree that the video is not the best. this was the only guy giving it a name. Also the version i use is the spinning version only, the non-spinning hooks/axes are IMO low power. Sometime I would do only to poke.

This technique in the way I mean it is very powerful. I also tend to step into the kick a bit, so it's not just a snap, it's also body weight behind, but I do it only at chudan and gedan levels.

I need to see if i can find a better video... but i think few will lable it sword kick, it's just a variation. I think i recall some videos of andy hug did sometihng close to this, like a axe/hook hybrid. need to search his old kyokushin training videos. It's like the hug turnado but agnled.

 

[drop bear103]

You sort of don't need to kick hard.

 

[Fungus94]

I totally agree that the video is not the best. this was the only guy giving it a name. Also the version i use is the spinning version only, the non-spinning hooks/axes are IMO low power. Sometime I would do only to poke.

This technique in the way I mean it is very powerful. I also tend to step into the kick a bit, so it's not just a snap, it's also body weight behind, but I do it only at chudan and gedan levels.

I need to see if i can find a better video... but i think few will lable it sword kick, it's just a variation. I think i recall some videos of andy hug did sometihng close to this, like a axe/hook hybrid. need to search his old kyokushin training videos. It's like the hug turnado but agnled.

Not the best video, and this is a tobi ushiro mawashi, but it shows still that his version is a hybrid of the axe and a horizotnal hook. Any was also a master of the axe kick, so perhaps he doing a hybrid is not suprising.

He has here also a little bit forward momentum and a diagolanal hitting vector

So I think the force vector would not be pure horizontal but contain a forward component as well (this comes from body weight, adding to power, or its how i pereceived it) + downward component coming from the axe hybrid (the downward omponent is great for leg kicks), but its too harsh to do full power for sparring, but i still use it, but hold back power. If you cant train the technjiques, howto improve? So i always sparr with the heel, as the distance is different from a ball kick, but i hold back power.

 

[HighKick1]

Seeing the kick for the first time my initial thought is that it wouldn't have much power. I kept watching the video, hoping to see him actually kick the bag with it, demonstrating its power but he used the bag mostly as a visual aid. I did see him make contact once, but it seemed to be just a brushing action with the sole of his foot. Interesting that he never delivered a real kick into the bag. I wonder why? Maybe my initial reaction was correct. It may have its uses as part of a combo, but as a stand-alone move I see it as a tool one could do without.

I am not going to fault him for not hitting the bag.
Any rotational spinning kick is hard to have much follow-through on using a heavy bag (70lbs +). And this kick is a slight combination of wheel (horizontal) and axe (vertical) kick, so you are not going to visually see much watching someone deliver it on a heavy bag.

 

[Fungus94]

I am not going to fault him for not hitting the bag.
Any rotational spinning kick is hard to have much follow-through on using a heavy bag (70lbs +). And this kick is a slight combination of wheel (horizontal) and axe (vertical) kick, so you are not going to visually see much watching someone deliver it on a heavy bag.

This is exactly what I have been struggling with for a long time. We have a 5.9 feet / 110 lbs heavy bag, and when i do this kick at chudan level, the bag certainly swings, maybe comparable to a hook punch, but not as much as a ushiro geri (turning back kick).

But with the "wrong technique" I barely tap the bag. So I have been listening to the bag for feedback.

You certainly will not displace a 100 lbs bag alot with the ball of your foot. But digging in your heel hook with a bent knee it can be done. So the leg can tot be straight, it would kill your knee. This is why I think the technique is necessarily different if executed at head level, I expect the power to drop alot there, but then the jaw does not need tons of power, but a body kick does.

 

[Wing Woo Gar38]

You sort of don't need to kick hard.

I favor low kicks, mostly. Location and angle seem to matter more than power for what I’m trying to accomplish with most of these. I practice high kicks for agility and exercise in any case.

 

[HighKick1]

This is exactly what I have been struggling with for a long time. We have a 5.9 feet / 110 lbs heavy bag, and when i do this kick at chudan level, the bag certainly swings, maybe comparable to a hook punch, but not as much as a ushiro geri (turning back kick).

But with the "wrong technique" I barely tap the bag. So I have been listening to the bag for feedback.

You certainly will not displace a 100 lbs bag alot with the ball of your foot. But digging in your heel hook with a bent knee it can be done. So the leg can tot be straight, it would kill your knee. This is why I think the technique is necessarily different if executed at head level, I expect the power to drop alot there, but then the jaw does not need tons of power, but a body kick does.

Agree. Rotational kicks that hit with the heel can be hell on the knees when hitting a heavy bag.
Practicing spins on the bag has value, but there is a Lot of the kick (post impact) you just cannot practice.
We have two spring-hinge mounted pads that weigh 20lbs with a velocimeter and display that can show speed or force in lbs/ft. They are very good at showing a kicker how important angle is for making power.

What I look for when doing roundhouse kicks (ball of foot) on a heavy bag is to see the chains move so that I know I created a little lift.