heel kick into sciatic nerve in buttock (between femoral head and pelvis bone)

[Fungus]

As I have some issues and restrictions in what i can do, I have come to explore in more details, things i can do.

One of these things, that i managed to nail a few times in sparring, each time temporarily surprised the opponent and they wonder "what happened". It is either a angled axe kick 45 degree downward into the opponents tight, or a spinning heel kick into the other buttock

It is hard to hit the correct spot, so the hit rate is low, but once you hit, the compression of the sciatic nerve temporarilyu disables the opponent with pain. Then often limp a bit, even if the power is low, you do now need massive power, but the heel needs to diga couple of inches into the buttock. I think no major damage is done, but it would certainly be enough to disable the opponent long enough for it to be a "KO".

Now, my question is, does anyone use this "regularly" or is it considerd too difficult? As I have issues with some techniques, this one of the techniques i train alot; every single time on the heavyy bag, so i think the success rate is gettg a little better.

Curious for opinon, what others things of this "nerve strike" with the heel. The idea is to kick the heel hard into the buttock. So you need to "hook" it, so it would be a close range technique, where other kicks are harder.

 

[isshinryuronin50 49]

a spinning heel kick into the other buttock

It is hard to hit the correct spot, so the hit rate is low

Curious for opinon, what others things of this "nerve strike" with the heel. The idea is to kick the heel hard into the buttock. So you need to "hook" it, so it would be a close range technique, where other kicks are harder.

Sounds good in theory, but as you note, the hit rate will be low. There is some loss of target sight in a spinning move as well as at least some bit of muscular accuracy due to the spin movement which is more complex biomechanically. A nerve bundle is hard to hit even with a straight hit with the hand in the flurry of combat.

A knee to the buttock or especially the thigh is a much better option IMO in terms less distance covered (speed of delivery) and accuracy. Plenty of power as well. And recovery in terms of guard and balance after a miss will be much better than after a spinning kick. I think one would need to have great skills to rely on using such a move as you suggest.

 

[Prince_Alarming97 33]

Is that 5 BL or 51 BL in the Bubishi? Just asking. We none of like being kicked in the ar*e, mind

 

[Prince_Alarming97 33]

oh right, smack bang in the middle, sorry we didn't do neurology in art college

 

[windwalker099160 8]

Curious for opinon, what others things of this "nerve strike" with the heel.

What happens if you damage the nerve ?

In some Chinese styles they have no strike places in training.

"Strike eight, don't strike."

"八不打
THE EIGHT FORBIDDEN TARGETS

是皆致命之處，苟非性命相搏，幸毋施用，若對方不念人命之為重，亦祗招之而已。
All of these targets are for life-threatening situations [and are thus the primary targets].

（一不打）太陽為首
1. the temples
（二不打）正中鎖喉
2. the windpipe
（三不打）中心兩壁
3. the solar plexus
（四不打）兩肋太極
4. the false ribs
（五不打）海底撩陰
5. the groin
（六不打）兩腎對心
6. the kidneys
（七不打）尾閭風府
7. the tailbone
（八不打）两耳扇風
8. the ears"

 

[drop bear]

The Vigor kick.

Yeah. I do it. Heel kick the side of their leg. Or the top of their leg if they are checking.

It is pretty funny.

 

[Prince_Alarming97 33]

What happens if you damage the nerve ?

In some Chinese styles they have no strike places in training.

"Strike eight, don't strike."

"八不打
THE EIGHT FORBIDDEN TARGETS

是皆致命之處，苟非性命相搏，幸毋施用，若對方不念人命之為重，亦祗招之而已。
All of these targets are for life-threatening situations [and are thus the primary targets].

（一不打）太陽為首
1. the temples
（二不打）正中鎖喉
2. the windpipe
（三不打）中心兩壁
3. the solar plexus
（四不打）兩肋太極
4. the false ribs
（五不打）海底撩陰
5. the groin
（六不打）兩腎對心
6. the kidneys
（七不打）尾閭風府
7. the tailbone
（八不打）两耳扇風
8. the ears"

I understand that karate makes use of vital points like this, although I couldn't find this particular one in the bubishi. Supposedly there is also a branch of japanese jujitsu that also takes this approach.

 

[Fungus]

What happens if you damage the nerve ?

Numbness, and radiating pain all the way down to the foot. I know from experience how a jammed sciatic nerve feels. It is painful, and its hard to walk or even sleep or sit, i had a inflammation in the piriformis, that was sqeezing the sciatic nerve. And the more it hurt, the more tensed the muscle got. So a vicious circle. If this is jammed enough, you surely will not kick back.

However, I think permanent damage is somewhat unlikely from a heel kick, it will just smash your nerve a bit.

 

[Fungus]

The Vigor kick.

Yeah. I do it. Heel kick the side of their leg. Or the top of their leg if they are checking.

It is pretty funny.

Sounds like the regular heel kick, this one?

This is I would say more common, and hits the femoral nerve. Also bad.

But I was thinking of the sciatic nerve, on the back, not accessible on the front. It's Ithikn so uncommong that I find no fancy youtube clips. But I pulled it off several times in sparring. (but at lower power, and it is enough). I think they recover to next day.

 

[Fungus]

Sounds good in theory, but as you note, the hit rate will be low.

I think this is true. This isn't the most obvious technique, but if you hit, it is fascinatingly effective. There are other effective techniques that i have trouble doing due to a nerve jam of my own, that isn't related to beeing kicked.

So I have to find alternative tricks. The good thing is, when you spin, people tend to expect a kick to the head, either spin kick or axe, or to the thigh. The buttock tend to be a surprise. And your elbows don't cover it! So it is often "open". If they expect an axe to the head, they may even raise the guard and even expose the kidney. If you have good exterior hip rotation (and i do) it can go also there.

But one gets vulnerable to get the leg catched. So you have to make sure they fold up.

 

[Fungus]

THE EIGHT FORBIDDEN TARGETS

3. the solar plexus
（四不打）兩肋太極
4. the false ribs
（五不打）海底撩陰
6. the kidneys
（七不打）尾閭風府

These three are prime targets and are allowed in kyokushin sparring. Though, you don't necessarly apply maxium force in sparring. We don't really want to BREAK the ribs of partners - just give them some good pain.

Of these, I'd say the kidneys are the worst, as you have very little muscle ther. The solar plexus can usually be hidden if you tens up an crouche a bit, while you eat it, same with lower ribs. crouching protects the edges, more than if you are upright.

 

[Buka32 1]

You guys are just plain mean.

It hurt reading this thread.

 

[HighKick]

As I have some issues and restrictions in what i can do, I have come to explore in more details, things i can do.

One of these things, that i managed to nail a few times in sparring, each time temporarily surprised the opponent and they wonder "what happened". It is either a angled axe kick 45 degree downward into the opponents tight, or a spinning heel kick into the other buttock

It is hard to hit the correct spot, so the hit rate is low, but once you hit, the compression of the sciatic nerve temporarilyu disables the opponent with pain. Then often limp a bit, even if the power is low, you do now need massive power, but the heel needs to diga couple of inches into the buttock. I think no major damage is done, but it would certainly be enough to disable the opponent long enough for it to be a "KO".

Now, my question is, does anyone use this "regularly" or is it considerd too difficult? As I have issues with some techniques, this one of the techniques i train alot; every single time on the heavyy bag, so i think the success rate is gettg a little better.

Curious for opinon, what others things of this "nerve strike" with the heel. The idea is to kick the heel hard into the buttock. So you need to "hook" it, so it would be a close range technique, where other kicks are harder.

Our sparring rules are above the belt. Not certain I buy the 'butt kick' as a valid kick under any condition, but a thigh kick is a good SD kick conditionally.

FWIW, we teach the Axe kick thrown three ways, inside, outside, and straight on. Each have their time and place.

 

[HighKick]

The Vigor kick.

Yeah. I do it. Heel kick the side of their leg. Or the top of their leg if they are checking.

It is pretty funny.

Do you agree the top of the quad is more effective?

 

[Fungus]

Our sparring rules are above the belt. Not certain I buy the 'butt kick' as a valid kick under any condition

I asked our instructor to be sure and this is a valid kick in full contact kyokushin ruleset; as long as you don't miss and hit the spine.

Of course - in sparring - it is one of these techniques among others you do with ease, just to practice it. Even the same kick to thigh we do with ease, as those usually gives more effect than a normal low kick.

 

[drop bear]

Do you agree the top of the quad is more effective?

It depends. If they check their leg is bent at 90° so i just axe kick that bit.