No retreat in Wing Chun ?

[askinghands]

Has nothing to do with sticking. If you can't regain the center with kwan, a structure push, or something of the like a step back in the appropriate direction might just do it for you. Imagine dropping a triangle block into a square hole. It will bounce around a little bit till it finds it's center again. Same concept, just keep trying to find the center and your body will do the work for you.

 

[Jake104]

While the triangle block is bouncing around a little bit finding center. That little bit may allow for a take down or strikes to it's head.Jake

 

[geezer]

The main objective in a fight is to strike and hurt the opponent. Sticking should only be a tool to achieve this. --Jake

I just had to quote this. It's so obvious... yet a lot of people forget it!

 

[askinghands]

While the triangle block is bouncing around a little bit finding center. That little bit may allow for a take down or strikes to it's head.Jake

If you have proper structure the chances are low. I'm serious when I say quite literally your body will bounce around for you. It actually feels pretty cool! I don't like getting into what if's in these kind of discussions, there's what if's for everything in every system. We're talking about wing chun structure and when and how retreat "usually" happens, right?

 

[Jake104]

Fair enough. I don't like to get into the what if's either. But the above are not what if's . The're most likely's.


The maintaing contact part, was in response to others stating no retreat for the reason of maintaining stick/ contact.




.Jake

 

[mook jong man]

I think the consensus is that we all agree that circumstances will sometimes dictate that we have to shift back.

But a point worth mentioning is , if we are moving back how can we generate power in a strike that is going forward ?
How can we transfer our body mass into a strike when our body mass is going backwards?

The short answer is you can't because the force vectors are at odds with each other , to generate power in your strike your body mass has to be stationary or moving forward as you strike.

In other words that retreating rear leg is going to have to be firmly planted into the ground before you execute a strike , in my own training I've found this to take some quite careful coordination and is not as easy as one would think , it seems to be a lot harder than synchronising a forward step and punch.

 

[Jake104]

I agree . I would also sink my COG , maintain proper stucture , and utilize joint alignment/ inch power when punching. Another option would be to step back a half step more than needed, then spring foward with punch.


Jake

 

[Jake104]

An example of the half step more approach is similar to what Kongo did to knock out Pat Barry. Just use WC principals.

Jake

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

As I mentioned before, for keeping a stable structure while retreating or stepping back that can withstand load, certain movements (Alignment Mechanisms) have to be executed. This way, you can strike or withstand pressure effectively even while yielding space, which can happen, and must be prepared for.

As mook jong man said, this is not trivial and it is not common knowledge. I can show this easily yet it is hard to write about because of the lack of uniformity in postures and stances and their names and execution.

So I will propose an experiment. It is a comparative experiment in which you will notice the difference in load capacity of your stance/posture (by the steady pushing of a study partner against your shoulders to test your posture stability).

For lack of uniformity, take a forward facing stance that you would use for striking, not a YGKYM. The one that looks like a T stance yet your feet are in two "lanes", not one in front of the other.

Now notice how stable the stance is by having a study partner push you. You should be able to hold the pressure without collapsing. If you collapse under the pressure, then ask for the experiments to develop systematically a stance that does not yield... that way your striking should have lotsa more power if you have this posture at the time of impact.

Onwards.

Now step back a certain way, step through, push-drag reverse, etc. After each, notice the posture you end up with, and test for stability. Notice if it is better, the same or less stable.

Now, do the stepping back again, yet after stepping back, "stomp" your front foot immediately after the back foot plants. Now test for stability. Notice if it is better, the same of less stable.

Now test with different ways of stepping back. Then report. Have fun!

Juan Mercado
from the labs of Martial Science University - Puerto Rico campus
Academia de Artes Marciales de Carolina

 

[bully]

We did quite a bit of back stepping with strikes in KF school. It reminded me of how weak I am going backwards, how off balance I was and how uncomroftable I felt.

I would suggest lots of practice for the, ahem, less skilled amongst us (like myself).

Going straight back with step drag (or whatever you do in your lineage) was not too bad. As we have all drilled this to death over the years.

What I liked doing was when we were made to go backwards striking in rear zig zags using circle step and step drag. I was all over the bloody place, my strikes were crap and I felt under more pressure as I wasn't used to it. A bit more real world not going back in a stright line. Was tiring on my legs too!! we did it forwards too and usually 3 chain punches with a hand reset after but before the next step.

 

[mook jong man]

I find the heavy bag is a pretty good indicator in regards to the timing of my back step with a punch.
If I can get the bag moving back about as much as I can with my forward step and punch then I know the timing is close to being correct.

It's really just a matter of waiting till your rear foot hits the ground then launch the strike , as with the step and punch going forward , when you get the timing correct you generate a lot of power without much perceived effort .
But when the timing is off the opposite seems to be the case.