Which Wing Chun?

yipman_sifu

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bcbernam777 said:
To be honest with you, good Wing chun is very few and far between, there are a lot of peole teaching the art that really shoauldn't and it is better to not learn bad Wing Chun than to learn bad Wing Chun. The fundamental reality and engine of Wing Chun is the SLT power and the power of leverage, very few people have this properly developed, and it needs to be said without this you cannot make wing chun work properly

Well SLT energy???. It seems bcbernam that you mention alot about this energy. Maybe it's the main aspect in Wing Chun, but why do you think that most branches of Wing Chun never says something about it. I personally know that SLT gives you support by its stance (knee tension), but the form of energy you are saying seems to be a new concept to me. I really liked your saying, maybe Sifu Fung Ping Boi really knows a concept that others forgot that it is very important in the Wing Chun system. COOL MAN:ultracool .
 

ed-swckf

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yipman_sifu said:
Wing chun is the general term used. Although it is a brand name of the Cheung system, it is still the original.
Ving Tsun was called by Gongsau wong to remove jokes about what people used to called "Toilet fist" WC. He called it victory fist VT. The term Ving tsun is used by most other Yipman students including Sifu Moyyat and others. Leung Ting called it Wing Tsun. Well that's the whole story.

Okay so are you saying there is no difference in the substance of wing chun and ving tsun. And lets forget wing tsun for now as that has obvious differences.
 

yipman_sifu

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ed-swckf said:
Okay so are you saying there is no difference in the substance of wing chun and ving tsun. And lets forget wing tsun for now as that has obvious differences.

To be honest. I don't know the difference of substance. I know that all branches no matter differences will teach you the same concepts. SLT,CK,BJ, Wooden man, Lap Sau, Chi Sao, and hand movements. Now the sequence that is taught in is what I dont know. Of course some of the branches that are not from Yipman includes a final weapon after the Baat Cham Do is the sword fighting techniques. Gary Lam's Wing Chun is also differs as SLT is taught with lots of hand movments (check it in his website). Regarding william Cheung. It is said that his system is traditional and teaches an old version of the system. Moyyat's Ving tsun is what I don't really have an idea about. Well, Wing tsun is the most modified and it has a very organized way of teachings and it produced astonishing fighters in the last 25 years of it's establishment. I know that people says that it's quality is getting less due to its expansion, but still, it's sructure is excellent.
 

ed-swckf

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yipman_sifu said:
To be honest. I don't know the difference of substance. I know that all branches no matter differences will teach you the same concepts. SLT,CK,BJ, Wooden man, Lap Sau, Chi Sao, and hand movements. Now the sequence that is taught in is what I dont know. Of course some of the branches that are not from Yipman includes a final weapon after the Baat Cham Do is the sword fighting techniques. Gary Lam's Wing Chun is also differs as SLT is taught with lots of hand movments (check it in his website). Regarding william Cheung. It is said that his system is traditional and teaches an old version of the system. Moyyat's Ving tsun is what I don't really have an idea about.

Lots of wing chun schools have differences with other wing chun schools in regards to forms etc. What i'm hoping to be established is a defining difference between VT and WC because many schools will refer to themselves as both as there is no clear difference established.

Personally, whilst i understand different schools and lineages will create differences within the training, i do not believe there is any fundamental difference depicted by the two different spellings. I don't see anything inherent to one that isn't inherent to the other.
 

TaiChiTJ

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I had the opportunity to study a bit with Master Randy Li at the TaiChi Legacy a few years ago. I chose his session on the yang 24 posture tai chi form but I came away thinking I would like to tap some of his wing chun knowledge. Being coached on the qigong approach to siu nim tau would be cool.

http://www.wingchunusa.com/


He was a very good teacher.
 

bcbernam777

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ed-swckf said:
Lots of wing chun schools have differences with other wing chun schools in regards to forms etc. What i'm hoping to be established is a defining difference between VT and WC because many schools will refer to themselves as both as there is no clear difference established.

Personally, whilst i understand different schools and lineages will create differences within the training, i do not believe there is any fundamental difference depicted by the two different spellings. I don't see anything inherent to one that isn't inherent to the other.

As far as I understand it there is no difference, except the fact that the "W" and "C" are rominizations of the words. In other words it is simply a matter of grammatical differnces between accents and nothing more. To be more specific with William Cheung's he actually calls his Wing Chun (Ving Tsun) TWC which of course stands for "traditional wing chun" that is literally what it is officially called. Ving Tsun is what it is generally known by everyone else (ocacssionally calling it Wing Chun, depending on wether or not the specific teacher has been used to the Western way of things) and then there is Leung Ting who has named his "way" as Wing Tsun (sorry I dont know how to insert the trademark logo here ;) )

The Differences:

TWC: Traditional Wing Chun as is the branding of William Chuengs way, has some striking differences in it, in that he teaches some extended componants of the Art which he makes claim to Yip Man teaching him (and only him) the traditional Wing Chun whilst he taught everyone else modified Wing Chun. Students under William Cheung claim that the differences would have been way too much for William to have developed on his own, I have had a glance over some of his system, and though there are differences, including an additional SLT which he names as the "ADvanced SLT" operationally there is not that much difference. In my own opinion (and I have more research to do) it is not a secret style that was taught to him by Yip Man, it is simply extensions that where created by William Cheung so that he could lay claim to the title of Grand Master (which he has done on a continual basis)

Wing Tsun: Leung Tings own flavour of Wing Chun. Really there are some differences, but they are the types of differences that are inherent in someones interpretatioin of the art rather than a whole nw approach

Wing Chun / Ving Tsun: No differences except for those that come down to the individuals interpretation

Note that these are through the Yip Man Lineage only there are several other major Lineages as well
 

bcbernam777

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ed-swckf

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bcbernam777 said:
As far as I understand it there is no difference, except the fact that the "W" and "C" are rominizations of the words. In other words it is simply a matter of grammatical differnces between accents and nothing more. To be more specific with William Cheung's he actually calls his Wing Chun (Ving Tsun) TWC which of course stands for "traditional wing chun" that is literally what it is officially called. Ving Tsun is what it is generally known by everyone else (ocacssionally calling it Wing Chun, depending on wether or not the specific teacher has been used to the Western way of things) and then there is Leung Ting who has named his "way" as Wing Tsun (sorry I dont know how to insert the trademark logo here ;) )

Yeah i'm aware of william cheungs approach and leung tings approach. The reason i raised the question is because i know some people are under the immpression that ving tsun and wing chun are in someway exclusive from each other which of course you agree they are not.


bcbernam777 said:
Wing Chun / Ving Tsun: No differences except for those that come down to the individuals interpretation

Exactly.
 

yipman_sifu

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Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu

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Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu is supposedly the truer, more effective version of Wing Chun taught exclusively to William Cheung by Yip Man. It is claimed by Cheung to be superior to the conventional Wing Chun system, referred to here as "Modified" Wing Chun.


Sorry for any problem if this may cause, but it is just evidences I read on other forums.

A Poster once mentioned about the classical Wing Chun
Lets be honest and never lie to ourselves. What I am going to say is that I need prove. If you read the history of Wing Chun during the Yipman era, you will recognize that William didn't have any specialty in order to learn by what he calls "Leubg Bik's" Wing Chun. I want any one from the posters to prove why he was the chosen one. William was not the kind that was a lovely student that his sifu would teach him secrets. There was Leung Sheung, Lok Yiu, Tsui Seung Tin, and Wong Shun-Leung. Those were the most students in which Yipman trusts. William was a street brawler who had fights and always got out of troubles due to that his father was in the HK police. I beleive Yipman knew about him and would never taught him extra stuff (There is no such extra stuff in the first place). Regarding that he stayed with Yipman in a certain time. Others including sifu Wong and Leung Ting stayed with Yipman almost to his last days, why they didn't learn extra stuff, because there is no stuff. Now Hawkins Cheung was a beimo fighter along with Wong. Saying that William invented this was a conclusion he reached because he never beleived that there was this special time where William were alone with Yipman. He remembers that they were all there at the gym training.

Poster 2
Regarding the say that William said about Bruce lee that he learned a modified Wing Chun is not true. We all know that Bruce Lee's Chi Sao was very good and Wong himself encouraged him to keep training in the sticky hands until he masters it. that's why JKD still has the Chi Sao application.

How it s effective if this happened?!!!
I don't really like to say that, but I must say it due to the fact we must all know. Where was William's effective Wing Chun when he coudn't defend himself against a young lad. This lad was from Leung Ting's organization who taught the modified wing chun that is not effective as william claims. Well, I didn't offence anybody and stated my opinion with evidence. Yipman taught all disciples with the same concepts. It is them who translate it in their own definition and applied concepts for their students.
 
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tkdduck

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I have taken my class with the 7 Stars of Martial Arts - Omaha Wing Chun Academy. My Siger Barb - who will be grading for Level 10 this summer, is awesome. Not only does she teach the technics but the applications for their use. One of the other things I really like is it more than a sport, her academy upholds alot of traditions of the Art making it more then come in learn to defend and counter and leave. You come in and learn the Skills but also the philosophies and traditions around Wing Chun. Looking forward to continuing to learn
 

yipman_sifu

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tkdduck said:
I have taken my class with the 7 Stars of Martial Arts - Omaha Wing Chun Academy. My Siger Barb - who will be grading for Level 10 this summer, is awesome. Not only does she teach the technics but the applications for their use. One of the other things I really like is it more than a sport, her academy upholds alot of traditions of the Art making it more then come in learn to defend and counter and leave. You come in and learn the Skills but also the philosophies and traditions around Wing Chun. Looking forward to continuing to learn

Who is your instrcutor learning Wing Chun from?!, which organization and which Sifu?.
 
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tkdduck

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Master Brian Lewadny from The International Wing Chun Kung Fu Federation
 

yipman_sifu

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tkdduck said:
Master Brian Lewadny from The International Wing Chun Kung Fu Federation

I think he trained under william Cheung. Wish you the best friend:) .
 

Wing Chun Dummy

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tkdduck said:
Is Wing Chun affective say in a street brawl...

Can someone enlighten me on the differnece and which is your opinions the better choice...

Wing Chun, under good teachers, is as good as you will find for practicality. We don't jump around like TKD ... we don't wave our guard around, hopping on a spot, doing high kicks....

You won't see till u try it... pay a visit to all of your local schools and the most friendly, open and welcoming would be my recommendation.
 
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tkdduck

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I started taking classes on May 8th and have to say certain things like punches with my Tae kwon do back ground seem weird to switch to a different philosophy. But I am enjoying it so far.

Anyone in the Omaha area I would be glad to recommend to atleast try the 7 Stars school Siger Barb is awesome to learn from and I look forward to calling her Sifu after she tests this summer for Level 10
 

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yipman_sifu said:
Sorry for any problem if this may cause, but it is just evidences I read on other forums.

A Poster once mentioned about the classical Wing Chun
Lets be honest and never lie to ourselves. What I am going to say is that I need prove. If you read the history of Wing Chun during the Yipman era, you will recognize that William didn't have any specialty in order to learn by what he calls "Leubg Bik's" Wing Chun. I want any one from the posters to prove why he was the chosen one. William was not the kind that was a lovely student that his sifu would teach him secrets. There was Leung Sheung, Lok Yiu, Tsui Seung Tin, and Wong Shun-Leung. Those were the most students in which Yipman trusts. William was a street brawler who had fights and always got out of troubles due to that his father was in the HK police. I beleive Yipman knew about him and would never taught him extra stuff (There is no such extra stuff in the first place). Regarding that he stayed with Yipman in a certain time. Others including sifu Wong and Leung Ting stayed with Yipman almost to his last days, why they didn't learn extra stuff, because there is no stuff. Now Hawkins Cheung was a beimo fighter along with Wong. Saying that William invented this was a conclusion he reached because he never beleived that there was this special time where William were alone with Yipman. He remembers that they were all there at the gym training.

Poster 2
Regarding the say that William said about Bruce lee that he learned a modified Wing Chun is not true. We all know that Bruce Lee's Chi Sao was very good and Wong himself encouraged him to keep training in the sticky hands until he masters it. that's why JKD still has the Chi Sao application.

How it s effective if this happened?!!!
I don't really like to say that, but I must say it due to the fact we must all know. Where was William's effective Wing Chun when he coudn't defend himself against a young lad. This lad was from Leung Ting's organization who taught the modified wing chun that is not effective as william claims. Well, I didn't offence anybody and stated my opinion with evidence. Yipman taught all disciples with the same concepts. It is them who translate it in their own definition and applied concepts for their students.

To me, who knows what went on. Since we all were not there at that time, everything is speculation at best. Everything is hearsay and bottom line it really has no importance in our daily lives.
Nothing more than chicken or the egg debate.
 
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tkdduck

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First You have to realize I have been to one formal class and then a practice night. Tuesday she doesn't have a formal class, it is her practice night, but she open the doors and allows anyone to come in and practice what they have learned and will help them hone up the skill, but doesn't teach new material that night as she uses it as her night to work out. So below is my first class:
for most of the students it was a practice of forms for a very few minutes, and then she worked with them on closing in drills, what to do when you had begun your attack and they moved back, forward, left right, fell etc. I can't say I know a whole lot of what they did as she worked with me seperate as it was my first class.

My class time was: Learning the centerline philosophy,3 stances, Neutral, Side Neutral, Forward, learning the Wu Sau Position, learning Bil Sau Deflection of straight punch, and alternate punching. Then we put it together in a combination. With all of these Siger Barb took the time not only to show them to me, but explain what they are and why.
 

yipman_sifu

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AceHBK said:
To me, who knows what went on. Since we all were not there at that time, everything is speculation at best. Everything is hearsay and bottom line it really has no importance in our daily lives.
Nothing more than chicken or the egg debate.

The bottom line proves that no such traditional Wing Chun exists. If it were really there. Where was it's effectivnness in this chicken egg debate:) .
Of course it doesn't have importance in our lives, but it has in proving what me and my friends said.
 
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