Ok, here's my take...
I've read a number of post in this thread stating that, unless one's Ryu links back to Hatsumi's schools, that Ryu is not legit.
Nope, but sorry. Its more of a matter that if a school cannot trace its origins back further to the current headmaster (such as Dux) --- and actually
prove he did not creat the art himself --- then its probably not legit. Hatsumi-soke can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he trained under Takamatsu. Dux cannot make the same claim regarding this mysterious "Tanaka" person.
And, even then, that's just a starting point. All that's proven is that the ninjutsu school is actually
Japanese in origin. After that, you actually have to go about and demonstrate that the school has really been around for so and many generations.
Although usually it seems that this statement is made by a Bugi.
I don't know what a "bugi" is.
Also, that Koga "died out" and no longer exists (some say this untimely death took place hundreds of years ago - some say that last of the Koga died in a car accident back in the 60's. In fact, we are hearing that Fuji's entire leadership was in this car so no one could have continued on the Koga side which seem very convenient to Buji marketing.
It also happens to be extremely convenient that that is
what actually happened, too. Do a little research into the subject, fer crissakes.
That's like saying that it just happens to be "convenient" for evolutionists that there is a fossil record, or "convenient" for heliocentrists that the earth is not the center of the universe.
1) If a Koga Ryu or even a Ryu-ha would "suddenly spring up and declare their Ryu," to whom "exactly" would this Koga Ryu have to submit this declaration too?
Anybody that they wanted to take their historical claims seriously. If they aren't interested in being taken seriously as a historical school, then they shouldn't worry about it.
2) For what purpose would the Koga Ryu make this declaration?
To prove they are not talking out of their asses with their historical claims.
3) To whom would this Ryu"be treated as a joke for all time" too (using your term)?
Anyone interested in the historical claims of the ryu, which would probably be a large number of martial artists.
4) If a Ryu choses not to submit this declaration to whomsoever, what is the sanction?
They will be regarded as a "joke for all time" by those that are interested in the history.
5) Do you honestly believe that a system once practiced by more that 1 million individuals was reduced to only enough individuals to be killed in a car (6 seater)?
Yes. And it was not practiced by more than 1 million people during its entire history --- let alone any single time. And, again, it is still questionable whether Fujita was actually the inheritor of a real ninjutsu ryuha or not in the first place.
An entire lineage dating (some say dating back to circa 700 AD - some say even prior to 500 BC) back prior to the Clan wars; before the Shogun wars now is only represented by ONE SCHOOL or ONE INDIVIDUAL?;
Clan wars?? Shogun wars?? Geez, man, where are you getting your historical terms from --- a roleplaying game??
In any event, any "lineage" that dates back to 700 CE should be suspect in and of itself.
6) Who presented proof to you, since you seem to believe that all remnants of Tanaka are dead, that Koga Ninjitsu is dead and would you be so kind as to present this proof within this thread? (If you don't have the proof, I'll take your word for it)
You can't prove a negative, silly.
7) In hand-to-hand combat, would you want to keep the back of your hands facing towards your opponent and if so, why so?
Depends on the situation.
The "50 Families" is a number taken from general reading.
I believe the exact numbers people are referring to are the 53 families of Koga, and the 45 families of Iga (which Hatsumi-soke actually lists at the end of
Essence of Ninjutsu). I've seen these numbers referred to in other sources, as well.
Making such claims without also displaying one's evidence has its purpose. The date I referenced depends upon when you want to start as a begining and not I. Personally, I have publically pronounced that I believe that Ninjitsu began with the initiation of the "Big Bang." Thus, it would depend on your definition of "Ninjitsu" or "Ninjutsu." Some others initiation date is with En-No-Goya, Tsun Tsu, The Shugendo, the Sohei, the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, Karumijutsu, Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Ryu or Daisuke Nishina's Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu. Thus, the debate on the "who" depends on you and what date you wish to proclaim was the initiation of the art.
On the basis of those flimsy criteria, when I'm sneaking up on my cat in the morning, then I'm practicing "ninjutsu". This is just silly --- nobody even referred to groups of individuals as shinobi until around the 1400's. Dating it back to En no Gyoja or Prince Yamato Takeru is a slippery slope, to say the least.
sojobow made no such claim.
Sojobow also needs to learn to speak in the first person.
Adding this: Koga Families would at times accept assignments requiring them to travel outside of Japan.
Prove it. Cite some sources.
I have seen no "LAW" that said that all Ninja assignments were performed INSIDE of Japan as most students take for granted.
I have seen no "law" that said that American colonials were not used in Korean wars at the time, either. Doesn't mean it really happened.
I have looked (in no particular depth) at the battles of Khan in China and west to Turkey and the Balkins. I see evidence of Ninjitsu techniques used in some of khan's battles. I see evidence that some of "khans Messengers" had to be what we call "Ninja." If a Ninja family assisted Khan, that Ninja Family would have had to re-establish his family outside of Japan and whose to say his ancestors do no exist today in other parts of the world. I have also looked at some of Attilla's battles and also see evidence of Ninja assistance which would mean that other families would have had to leave mainland Japan. If this is true, we may all be limiting the scope of this martial system.
*laughs* Okay, now this is just getting down-right nutty.
Human beings have been using "sneaky" tactics for a long, long time. Your notion that every "sneaky-doer" in the world is a "ninja" is beyond inane. Its utterly unbelievable that any sane human being could believe something of that sort. Its like calling anybody that's ever used a sword a "samurai", or that anybody that's ever thrown a punch is doing "karate".
If you're going to discuss history, then limit your terminology to historical terms and not these wacky personal definitions you've invented.
Laterz.
