Nightline story on MMA
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bowser666
2nd Black Belt
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Steve, I see what you are saying. My whole point is that I have satisfaction enough to see a change within myself ( spirit, will, health, etc....) from MA training, and that is all I require. I do not feel a need to compete against the next guy. My goals are my goals are those. I enjoy seeing a change within myself and going from a pack a day smoking, sitting on my fat *** on couch all the time doing nothing person to being as active as I am now. That is enough reward for me. It is why I went on this journey. To see if I have the Qi to do it 
I am honestly not even thinking about "competing in a tournament" or beating someone in sparring class. When I spar in class I look at it as improving my attack/defense and improving my cardio , most importantly. Does that make sense ? I don't think that is necessarily ego related right ? Unless it is for me to feel better about myself. Which is what is happening
I am honestly not even thinking about "competing in a tournament" or beating someone in sparring class. When I spar in class I look at it as improving my attack/defense and improving my cardio , most importantly. Does that make sense ? I don't think that is necessarily ego related right ? Unless it is for me to feel better about myself. Which is what is happening
Nolerama
Master Black Belt
Seriously? You can have your opinion of MMA. But you shouldn't shouldn't insult MMA people in such a broad manner... Or the parents of those kids who allow their children to learn MMA.
I stopped at your post. This question IMHO is played out. You can argue all sides to this till your brains explode. And then cry to Mommy when you spend all day insulting MMA and someone insults YOUR art (when you don't really understand it).
Troglodytes... Want change for the $5 word? It might be helpful towards a World of Warcraft account...
shinbushi
Green Belt
bowser666
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The first 2 videos were very interesting. Even though it is just day care with a Spin. It doesn't look like they are really teaching a whole lot. It does look like a positive environment though and it always makes me smile to see kids smiling. The last video was a bit iffy to me. To see young kids like that doing sweeps and slamming opponents into mats seems way to aggressive for that age group. Not to mention that there does not look to be any structure whatsoever. Sorry to say but MMA is the new McDojo !!!! You are going to see more and more of this as it is now aired on primetime TV.
shinbushi
Green Belt
Luis of One Dragon has a fine and well structured program called Play as the Way. Which I have. It is a different paradigm to teaching and disipline than they typical hut-hut karate discipline. His kids also do very well in BJJ and Judo comps. Luisis a blackbelt in BJJ as well as judo, and part of the Straight blast gym. Mod Com is as well. Definitely NOT mcdojo.
From onedragon.com
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I think that age should not define when you can start training MMA, infact it may be good to build discipline that way. Obviously sparring and contact should be started later, say around age 9 or 10. That's only because there are scientific guidelines for normal body growth.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
All good. My only response is that I don't think much about competing in a tournament, and if you think about winning or "beating someone" when sparring, you don't understand the nature of sparring. Sparring, as it's done at my school, is so that you help your sparring partner (notice, they're called "partners" and not "opponents") improve. Sometimes that means pushing your partner and challenging them and sometimes it means slowing down and working nuance with them. And they should be doing the same for you. I would suggest that if your primary focus in sparring is yourself, ego might be involved... at least a little.Steve, I see what you are saying. My whole point is that I have satisfaction enough to see a change within myself ( spirit, will, health, etc....) from MA training, and that is all I require. I do not feel a need to compete against the next guy. My goals are my goals are those. I enjoy seeing a change within myself and going from a pack a day smoking, sitting on my fat *** on couch all the time doing nothing person to being as active as I am now. That is enough reward for me. It is why I went on this journey. To see if I have the Qi to do it
I am honestly not even thinking about "competing in a tournament" or beating someone in sparring class. When I spar in class I look at it as improving my attack/defense and improving my cardio , most importantly. Does that make sense ? I don't think that is necessarily ego related right ? Unless it is for me to feel better about myself. Which is what is happening
Honestly, I agree with your statements to a degree, and at this point, we're really discussing the finer points. I train for many of the same reasons. I quit smoking 10 years ago, gained 40 lbs and by the time I started training I was a physical wreck. I train primarily for health and well being, completely. I am in no way interested in being a badass and will be the first to admit that it would be an unrealistic goal anyway.
Primarily, at this point, I'm hoping that you will maybe, just maybe, accept that ego is no more or less apparent in styles that compete than in styles that don't. If you can accept that, I'm happy.
TheArtofDave
Blue Belt
I'm sure that the Nightline story did not also mention that most Martial Arts instructors who offer MMA only offer it to kids 16 & up.
However, if there was an age appropriate class for 15 & below, it would be done in a very responsible, and structured way. Kids are impressionable so if it were possible to have an MMA classes designed that way emphasis on what was allowed and what would not be allowed would always be stressed. As well as the fact that it will always take place in the ring, and never as practice on others.
Seems like a shock report to try and stir up trouble to me.
However, if there was an age appropriate class for 15 & below, it would be done in a very responsible, and structured way. Kids are impressionable so if it were possible to have an MMA classes designed that way emphasis on what was allowed and what would not be allowed would always be stressed. As well as the fact that it will always take place in the ring, and never as practice on others.
Seems like a shock report to try and stir up trouble to me.
I'm sorry but you can't say that...it doesn't make sense. No one goes around saying TKD or MT is the new McDojo. McDojos may open selling their forms of MMA but a style can't be a McDojo, can't be a real dojo either.
There's always going to be innapropriate training for children as there are adults who want to push their children, you'll find thats not just in MA though. There's always going to be someone who wants to make money out whatever's popular in MA, many people have pointed out that it's happened to Kung Fu, karate and kickboxing already. It doesn't mean you should condemn the whole style and everyone who practices it just because of a few rogue instructors wanting to cash in on a styles current popularity.
Just managed to watch the third video and tbh it bears no resemblence to adult MMA training let alone childrens!
A lot of it seemed to that extreme type martial arts that some clubs do, all gymnastics. The competitions seemed to be judo and wrestling. When MMA is not in a ring/cage it's on mats. The adults don't throw onto floors, so I don't see why children would. The 'takedowns' in the dojo weren't the sort you'd do in MMA they look more like rugby tackles. The training is nothing like any MMA club I've ever seen. They maybe call it MMA but it is only in the broadest sense, it's not the MMA that is practiced in the UFC or any other promotion. Still we'll get the blame for it no doubt.
A lot of it seemed to that extreme type martial arts that some clubs do, all gymnastics. The competitions seemed to be judo and wrestling. When MMA is not in a ring/cage it's on mats. The adults don't throw onto floors, so I don't see why children would. The 'takedowns' in the dojo weren't the sort you'd do in MMA they look more like rugby tackles. The training is nothing like any MMA club I've ever seen. They maybe call it MMA but it is only in the broadest sense, it's not the MMA that is practiced in the UFC or any other promotion. Still we'll get the blame for it no doubt.
Adept
Master Black Belt
Can you explain this a bit more for me?
If I might, a couple of comments on a couple of threads here. First, I saw the MMA story on Nightline and frankly, believe Shamrock was ambushed as both the moderator and the other person (neither of whom has ever done any martial arts) continued to lambast on the topic. As a sidebar, would have been an interesting story moreso if these same people had commented on muy thai boxers at age 10, traditional Chinese martial artists fighting at age 8 (was in Hong Kong and watched my junior classmates that young fight full contact), etc. Is this only an American concern because of the recent phenomenon against spanking, discipline, and upsetting children's feelings? As an instructor myself, who also competed for 18 years from 1981-2000, and now a national judge in Chinese martial arts, I do not teach anyone under 18 to fight at full contact and head shots are closely regulated, but we also fight without pads and in traditional kung fu style, as well as the normalized kick boxing prevalent in tournaments and sanshou matches. Kids should be in the art for discipline, self esteem, relating to others, maturing mentally/physically, and defending themselves.
As far as competition, I go both ways here, with respect, and this is my opinion, lol!! I enjoyed the competitions, usually won at forms, weapons, and continuous/full contact fighting, but found the fighting after all these years had taken me away from the true art of eagle claw, white crane, and nine bird. Also, 11 years ago I started doing Yang taichi and push hands, which changed my whole way of thinking and fighting. Push hands believes in investment in loss, not getting so caught up in the first hit as moving with your opponent, allowing mistakes on both sides, and using each other for corrective action before the streets. I also found, in my 40s and now 50, that after over 30 years of training "investment in loss" was worthwhile and illuminating. Plus, at my age, unless I have to defend my family or the ones I love, or protect my students, I practice to keep my skills up, to increase my mental capacity for new thought and cool ideas, and to figure out how someday I may be able to hit one of my three masters?!!!! Darn it!!! In any event, in my opinion, competition in today's context, unless threatend or having to fight on the street (done that) to protect self or family, is great at showing the ability to react under pressure and see where one's relative skills are compared to every day with classmates using same or similar methodologies. At the same time, I have made friends all over the world from doing it!! From many other schools!!
Therefore, my friends, I find advantages to both competing and not, as I currently teach, judge, and practice on my own. As far as MMA, I believe properly taught, it can be like wrestling in teaching good habits. As far as children, as teachers it is OUR responsibility to teach our kids, and all students, respect for each other, and for themselves. My fellow teachers, is that not what our masters taught us!! And, in my Shaolin school, our 12-18 year olds went through the same harsh and painful training as us, with moderation for their growing bones and self worth. Now, all that stayed in are in their early 30s and strong men/women with success and no fear about life or issues.
My two cents worth with respect to all here.
As far as competition, I go both ways here, with respect, and this is my opinion, lol!! I enjoyed the competitions, usually won at forms, weapons, and continuous/full contact fighting, but found the fighting after all these years had taken me away from the true art of eagle claw, white crane, and nine bird. Also, 11 years ago I started doing Yang taichi and push hands, which changed my whole way of thinking and fighting. Push hands believes in investment in loss, not getting so caught up in the first hit as moving with your opponent, allowing mistakes on both sides, and using each other for corrective action before the streets. I also found, in my 40s and now 50, that after over 30 years of training "investment in loss" was worthwhile and illuminating. Plus, at my age, unless I have to defend my family or the ones I love, or protect my students, I practice to keep my skills up, to increase my mental capacity for new thought and cool ideas, and to figure out how someday I may be able to hit one of my three masters?!!!! Darn it!!! In any event, in my opinion, competition in today's context, unless threatend or having to fight on the street (done that) to protect self or family, is great at showing the ability to react under pressure and see where one's relative skills are compared to every day with classmates using same or similar methodologies. At the same time, I have made friends all over the world from doing it!! From many other schools!!
Therefore, my friends, I find advantages to both competing and not, as I currently teach, judge, and practice on my own. As far as MMA, I believe properly taught, it can be like wrestling in teaching good habits. As far as children, as teachers it is OUR responsibility to teach our kids, and all students, respect for each other, and for themselves. My fellow teachers, is that not what our masters taught us!! And, in my Shaolin school, our 12-18 year olds went through the same harsh and painful training as us, with moderation for their growing bones and self worth. Now, all that stayed in are in their early 30s and strong men/women with success and no fear about life or issues.
My two cents worth with respect to all here.
