My Visit from the Sheriff's Deputy...

Bill Mattocks

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Not having the best day in the world today. I woke up with a splitting headache, so bad that I had to take something for it, and then I got sick from that. All before my morning coffee. Yay.

Then my wife took our dogs out into the backyard for their morning trot, and I heard them barking furiously at something. I went outside and was on the tail end of hearing our neighbor cussing out my wife for letting our dogs 'attack him'. I called the dogs in and we had breakfast. Then the Sheriff's Department showed up.

As background...

We rent this house. When we moved in, our landlord told us that the next-door neighbor's wife is afraid of dogs. She apparently had a bad experience with the dog on the other side of their house from us, and she is afraid to go into her backyard when the other neighbor's dog is out. He warned us to keep our dogs under control.

To that end, we do not let the dogs out unless one or both of us is with them. They are never let out by themselves. They are barky but they stay in the back yard and under our visual contact and verbal control at all times.

A few weeks later, I was mowing our yard and I saw that he had an electronics team putting up surveillance cameras on his house in his front yard. He was working with them and pointing at me, making sure they aimed the cameras at our driveway before the opaque covers were put on. The guy is literally monitoring us on closed circuit TV! What? We've never had a party, played loud music, had the police show up (until today), nothing at all except when my MiL passed away at our house and an amublance came a few months ago (and by the way, our landlord told us that the complained about the siren from the ambulance waking his baby. So sorry, we'll try to die more quietly in the future).

Our first (and only, until this morning) interaction with our neighbor was right after we had moved in. We were in the backyard with the dogs and he went out into his own backyard. Our dogs ran to the edge of our property and barked at him. He yelled at us, telling us that we had to keep those #&@* dogs on a leash at all times or he'd call the cops. I went over and introduced myself, told him we understood the issue, but that our dogs were never out without us, and we'd keep them on our property and under our control at all times. He continued to rant and shout about out-of-control dogs attacking him, his wife, and their newborn child. I finally walked away, he just kept ranting. I should also say that this was over a year and a half ago. We have 30-foot-high shrubs bordering the property (fences are not allowed by the HOA), but planted so thickly that our dogs could not get through them if they wanted to, plus he (the neighbor) has put chickenwire at the base of the shrubs to keep out rabbits and whatnot from his garden. No way the dogs can get through, they were just barking at him through the bushes; they could not even see him and he could not see them. The whole time he was ranting at us, I could not even see him, I was talking back to a bush, for God's sake.

We haven't heard word one from the guy since then. To be good neighbors, if we hear his back door open while we're out with the dogs, we bring them in immediately so that they won't even bark at him or his family. If theyr'e out when we want to let the dogs out, we keep them in until he goes in. On the rare occasion when they've had guests in the backyard all day and the dogs are ready to pop, we both go out together in the backyard with the dogs and guard the bushes on his side of the yard so the dogs won't bark at him.

So this morning, my wife was in the backyard with the dogs and she heard the neighbor come outside, but the dogs seemed to be ignoring the noise. She guarded that side of the yard just to keep the dogs away. But the neighbor has a compost pile outside of his backyard in a common open area that is not used by anyone (it's the back parking lot of a nearby shopping center, down a berm, and no one can use it, so it just open space). This common open area is accessible by our yard and his; our landlord has a compost pile in the same area, although we don't use it. Anyway, the dogs heard the noise and raced around the trees to the common area and started to bark at him. He started shouting and my wife came running and called the dogs off; they did not touch him in any way - and they never have to anyone. That's when I heard the noise and came outside and called the dogs in. They came immediately when I called them and went inside, no problems.

So, back to the knock at the door. The dogs started barking of course, and I asked my wife to put them in the bedroom and close the door. I answered the door and there's a Sheriff's Deputy. He got a complaint from the neighbor that our dogs 'attacked' him on his property. He told us not to let the dogs out on him. I assured him that the dogs were in the bedroom and asked him to come in. He declined. So I stepped outside.

I was then asked what kind of dogs they were. Just mutts. What kind of mutts? Well, the boy is 70 pounds and the girl is about 60. They're mixed breed, we think maybe yellow lab and perhaps some husky (the girl has one blue eye). I offered to introduce him to the dogs, he said he did not want to see them. He asked if they had any 'dangerous breeds' in them. He would not say what kind of breed he meant, but I presume he meant Rotty or Pitt Bull or something, which no, definitely not. Again I offered to show him, but he did not want to know.

He asked if our dogs had been in the neighbor's yard, we said no. I tried to explain about the common area behind both of our houses, and offered to show it to him, but he refused to look at it. He said "so you admit the dogs were out of your control and in his property?" Uh, no, they were not on his property. I tried to explain again, I even pointed to the part of it you can see through our front door looking out into the backyard, but he refused to even look through our door. This kind of thing went on for awhile; he kept asking us if we 'admitted' that our dogs were on the neighbor's property and pretended he did not understand what a common area was; if it was not OUR property, then it had to be the neighbor's property.

Finally, he told us that we had to keep the dogs on a leash anytime they were outside, even in our own backyard. He then got nasty. He told me "I'm glad I didn't have to shoot your dogs as I came up the sidewalk to your house just now." Yes, I'm glad too, but we never let our dogs outside in the front yard. Then he told us about all the dogs he's shot recently, including one dog that ate half a lady's face in her living room and he had to shoot it right between the eyes and he wanted me to come out to his cruiser and look at the pictures; no thanks. Then he told us that he had informed the neighbor to call Animal Control if he saw our dogs off a leash, and he told us that if Animal Control came out, they'd declare our dogs a 'dangerous breed' and put them down instantly, not to mention the huge fines we'd incur; we could even be arrested. He said this without even seeing our dogs.

In the end, he managed to get my wife freaked out and nearly crying, the neighbor got away with calling her all sorts of vile names, and my dogs are confused and upset that they can't run round in our own backyard anymore. I'm angry but there is nothing I can do about it. The Sheriff's Deputy seemed to get a charge out of telling us all the things he could legally do to us and how he shoots dogs on sight if he thinks they are a dangerous breed, and was not even slightly interested in seeing or meeting the dogs himself, nor in seeing the backyard where the 'common area' is that he insisted must belong to the neighbor if it does not belong to us personally, which is BS and a lie.

What a great day.

Our 'dangerous breed' dogs:

http://youtu.be/nUKpIn-2LxU
 

Sukerkin

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Having police like that is no way to live either. Good lord! Every time I hear a story like this I am reminded that America and England might technically be on the same planet but you'd never really know it.

Mind you, I'd be brassed off with dogs barking at me through my fence every time they're out, I do confess. But if talking with the neighbour didn't sort it out, I'd be calling the Council, not the Police. A fellow four doors down from us is getting awful close to my doing that as I am sick to the back teeth of his yapping dogs.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Having police like that is no way to live either. Good lord! Every time I hear a story like this I am reminded that America and England might technically be on the same planet but you'd never really know it.

Mind you, I'd be brassed off with dogs barking at me through my fence every time they're out, I do confess. But if talking with the neighbour didn't sort it out, I'd be calling the Council, not the Police. A fellow four doors down from us is getting awful close to my doing that as I am sick to the back teeth of his yapping dogs.

When I said that our dogs bark, what I meant is that if we were to leave them out when the neighbor is out, they will bark at him through the hedges. That's why we take them inside the moment he comes out, so that he does not have to put up with that kind of racket. He's been barked at a grand total of two times in the year-and-a-half that we've been here.

And I just got off the phone with my landlord. He got an earful from the guy earlier today also. Seems the way he told it to my landlord, the dogs attacked him and he had to defend himself with a rake, beating them back and away from him. I heard the entire encounter (which is why I came outside to see what the ruckus was). It consisted of ten seconds of barking and him shouting curses at my wife. If he had hit them with a rake there would have been other kinds of noises. My wife was actually there when it happened and said no such thing occurred; he was pitching compost with a rake and they barked at him; she gave chase, called them off, and we all went inside while he screamed obscenities and threats. Now I have to find out if I'm to be evicted. Wonderful.
 

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Having police like that is no way to live either.

What exactly do you mean by that? What did this officer do other than advise Bill and depart? Albeit with poor customer service. Over here we get called for all sorts of things. Some that are within our scope of authority and some that are not. Either way when someone calls 911...we go.

I have to admit though, this guys demeanor seems to need some work. Some cops seem to think they have to give lectures when they are unnecessary.

This isn't the first time I've seen this "your police" stuff from you. I seem to recall posting a link to a Brit source saying that some racist treatment of your citizens by your Leo's is one of the sources of discontent behind your nations recent riots.

Having met some other nations coppers, we have more in common than we do differences imo. At least between "western" officers.



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Sukerkin

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If I have to tell you why a copper threatening to shoot your dogs is wrong, then I'm flabbergasted.

Or did I utterly fail to understand what BillM described?

Oh I just noticed the "Your police" bit - either that wasn't there before or I missed it. All I can say is that when I say anything in-thread here, these are just my perceptions from what I've experienced of our Police in real life and what I've read and 'seen' of American Police on here and YouTube et al. Being a law abiding sort, I don't get to see our Boys in Blue when they're at the sharp end, so I have no doubt that my views on our local coppers bear little relation to the Met (who have a terrible reputation going back decades).

In the end, it's an opinion and you know what the rule is about those when referencing their prevalence amongst the human population :D.
 
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Archangel M

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If I have to tell you why a copper threatening to shoot your dogs is wrong, then I'm flabbergasted.

Or did I utterly fail to understand what BillM described?

After you have been bitten by the doggie that "never bites" some coppers may indeed say such a thing as a warning. Some of us have indeed had to shoot the "family pet" after he attached himself to our leg. Not to gainsay Bill here but the officer was probably dispatched to a "vicious dog attack" call. You are judging this Leo's actions based on Bills story....not on what the officer may have thought he was walking into.

Im more objecting to the totalitarian implication behind US Leo's responding to a dog complaint. If the person calls 911 saying he was "attacked" we respond.

Was this officers attitude the best? Probably not, but the "your officers are..." stuff is starting to aggravate. Im sure I can find some sterling examples of what Brit Leo's "are" if I looked around too.

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Oh I just noticed the "Your police" bit - either that wasn't there before or I missed it. All I can say is that when I say anything in-thread here, these are just my perceptions from what I've experienced of our Police in real life and what I've read and 'seen' of American Police on here and YouTube et al. Being a law abiding sort, I don't get to see our Boys in Blue when they're at the sharp end, so I have no doubt that my views on our local coppers bear little relation to the Met (who have a terrible reputation going back decades).

In the end, it's an opinion and you know what the rule is about those when referencing their prevalence amongst the human population :D.

Ok...understood.

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Sukerkin

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I started several responses here and none of them seemed to do anything but be likely to wind you up even more, which is not my intention - so ... least said soonest mended I reckon.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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After you have been bitten by the doggie that "never bites" some coppers may indeed say such a thing as a warning. Some of us have indeed had to shoot the "family pet" after he attached himself to our leg. Not to gainsay Bill here but the officer was probably dispatched to a "vicious dog attack" call. You are judging this Leo's actions based on Bills story....not on what the officer may have thought he was walking into.

I agree that he had no idea what he was walking into, and I agree that everyone says their dogs never bite. However, he asked for my 'side of the story' and then repeatedly refused to listen to me.

C=cop M=me

C: Are your dogs large?
M: Well, at 70 and 60 pounds, they're on the large side of medium.
C: So they're large.

C: Are your dogs mixed with 'dangerous' breeds?
A: No, we think they have golden lab and maybe husky in them, no pit bull or rotty.
C: So they're dangerous breed mixes.

C: Were your dogs on the neighbor's property?
A: No, they were in back of our house and in back of the neighbor's house, which is not anyone's property due to the inability of the original property owner (a store in back of us) to make use of it. It's inaccessible except through our mutual back yards.
C: So you admit the dogs were on his property.

I offered to show the officer the property in question. Nope.
I offered to show the officer the dogs. Nope.
And then he had to make - at the end of the conversation - a series of threats, including how glad he was that he didn't have to shoot our dogs as he came up our front walk, despite my assertion that we don't let the dogs out in the front yard ever. He actually wanted to show me photos of the woman whose face was bitten off and the dog he shot between the eyes last week. He told me that a future call to Animal Control would result in the dogs being taken and immediately put down due to the fact that they were a dangerous breed - despite my insisting they are not, and his refusal to even look at the dogs.

You know I am former LE myself. I appreciate all that the police do, and I stick up for them here and else where. I did not mention to this officer that I had any LE experience, but he clearly was angry and had a problem with my wife and I, despite our doing nothing to provoke him, we never argued with him, and we simply apologized profusely and said "yes, sir, yes, sir" a lot. My wife was terrified and near tears.

If I didn't state it clearly before, let me say it now; the man acted like an *** with a badge. But that's the way it goes, there is nothing to be done about it.

I've had another discussion with my landlord; he's going to let us stay until our lease is up. Then we have to go. Like we'd stay here another minute in any case. I'm very sorry this has happened, but I still have no idea just what the heck it is I've done wrong. My dogs barked at the man. I'm sorry. We got them back in the house ASAP. They did not 'attack' him, despite what he told my landlord.

How would you have handled it?
 

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Minus the threats, pretty much the same thing. Listen to both sides...see that nobody had actually been bitten...file it with animal control and clear the call. This sounds like some hamhanded attempt at "advisement" to me. Im sure you know what im talking about being former LE.

This situation alone was all it took for the landlord to deny a lease renewal?

Btw...my beef is more about a nationwide broadbrushing than it was about your specific incident.

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granfire

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What exactly do you mean by that? What did this officer do other than advise Bill and depart?
How about not investigating?
He was hoping to come out and getting to shoot a couple dogs. Sorry, but a person bragging about shooting an animal is sick. I make exceptions for hunters, but barely.

Albeit with poor customer service. Over here we get called for all sorts of things. Some that are within our scope of authority and some that are not. Either way when someone calls 911...we go.
so he went. He did not look at anything...

I have to admit though, this guys demeanor seems to need some work. Some cops seem to think they have to give lectures when they are unnecessary.
psych eval....
 

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Same as you. Sounds like a no-win situation, but until you move, I'd be proactive in protecting my family from this guys maliciousness. Get a laptop and window cam put in right away and simply put it on every time the dogs go out. Also, consider muzzle and being regular with the outside times. Call the town and the HOA to get in writing the specifics about leashes. (Are the dogs supposed to be leashed even while on the property?) Talk to a lawyer. This guy isn't going away and isn't going to stop. Then, I would discuss the officer's demeaner, and show your transcript, to the department with the lawyer in tow.

How would you have handled it?
 
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Bill Mattocks

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This situation alone was all it took for the landlord to deny a lease renewal?

Yeah. He's kind of funny. I don't think we ever saw eye-to-eye, but we were introduced by a mutual friend. He used to live in this house and he's friends with the neighbor; they get together all the time. He's quite concerned with 'property values' and 'community relations'. I think he rented us the house because he had to, due to financial conditions at the time. We rented the house because it had what we needed. Neither of us has every been exactly at ease with the other.
 

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What exactly do you mean by that? What did this officer do other than advise Bill and depart? Albeit with poor customer service. Over here we get called for all sorts of things. Some that are within our scope of authority and some that are not. Either way when someone calls 911...we go.

I have to admit though, this guys demeanor seems to need some work. Some cops seem to think they have to give lectures when they are unnecessary.

This isn't the first time I've seen this "your police" stuff from you. I seem to recall posting a link to a Brit source saying that some racist treatment of your citizens by your Leo's is one of the sources of discontent behind your nations recent riots.

Having met some other nations coppers, we have more in common than we do differences imo. At least between "western" officers.



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I agree, to a point.

I only have Bill's side. It may be that the deputy was trying to end the call as quick as he can, so no, he doesn't want to see the dogs. No, he doesn't want to see the backyard. He knows the neighbor is a pain in the *** but he's over a barrel, and has to do something. I wasn't there.

Bill -- if you're as upset with the treatment as you seem to be, you know the drill. Call the guy's supervisor. Talk to him; it doesn't have to be a full, formal complaint, even.

I would suggest pushing to get your side down, as well as the neighbor's. And I'd go to the homeowner's association, too. Otherwise, you may discover decisions have been made without you.
 

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And having caught the rest of the thread -- you're already behind.

You're in a no-win situation -- but I'd definitely still suggest getting your side of the story down for real. Call the deputy's supervisor, or talk to Animal Control yourself. You don't want them to use the next instance of barking or whatever to support showing up at your door with an order to seize and destroy the dogs.

Do I think the neighbor is over-reacting? Yeah, I do. Do I think the cop could and should have handled it better? Yeah. But you're the outsider at the moment. Protect yourself, and start looking for a new place. I don't know how much is left on the lease -- but it sounds like your landlord just may work with you on breaking it, if you can find something fairly soon.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Yes, we are looking for a new place. I really do not want to move at this time, but I may have no choice. It's unfortunate. I agree that the neighbor is over-reacting; in fact, I think he's got some kind of issue with dogs. The cop? Well, I would have been just fine with "Keep your dogs on a leash or you will be visited by Animal Control and you won't like it." I did not need the threats to shoot them, nor the basic presumption that I am a liar - my dogs large, dangerous breed mix, and they invaded the neighbor's yard. Why did he ask if he had no interest in my answer? If he didn't care, you'd think he wouldn't have asked, rather than ask and then disregard my statements and refuse to look with his own eyes. I find that irritating.

However, I also don't think it's worth filing a beef with his supervisor over. The one thing I do not need is to have a file with the local SO, for any reason. I have been off the radar all my life, never in trouble, never any reason for anyone to keep my name on a list. I like it that way. I'm just ticked off; when people make my wife scared and nearly in tears, it gets my blood up.
 

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