My Grandmaster

[rchurch]

Thanks for this information. Some of it, like the ranks above 5th dan being administrative, I knew, but the other information is new to me.

I believe my grandmaster is Kukkiwon because her ranking is in taekwondo and the certificates we give our students are Kukkiwon and are signed by her as a grandmaster. The 4th dan also signs as head instructor.

So, I guess it does come down to maybe I paid too much, but I'm not complaining. It is an honor, as it should be for anyone, to have a grandmaster as your teacher.

Again, the information you gave is enlightening. Thanks.

 

[Dana]

For your information, this is what a modern (below 8th dan) Kukkiwon certificate looks like:

http://www.napataekwondo.com/kukkiwonblackbeltcertificate/

There is no place for anyone besides the Kukkiwon president to sign it.

This is what someone who tells you they send to Korea for a Kukkiwon certificate is lying about:

http://www.martialartssupermarket.com/index.cfm?action=moreinfo&itemid=9104

This certificate is fine if you don't tell folks it is a Kukkiwon, as it is not, merely a cheap imitation. However, you can sign it.

Again, you can check your Kukkiwon status by going to their web site.

Dana

 

[Marginal]

So, I guess it does come down to maybe I paid too much, but I'm not complaining. It is an honor, as it should be for anyone, to have a grandmaster as your teacher.

I have a GM as my instructor. I still don't pay anywhere near as much as you do for that privilege. If you're happy, that is great. However, a having a GM as an instructor doesn't mean you have to pay through the nose.

 

[terryl965]

rbchurch I will only add this your GM is not a GrandMaster with the KKW, so she brought in a real GM anybody can all you have to do is pay the fee. Sorry not what you want to hear but it is what needs to be said.

On the bright side you and your son is happy and that is what matters here, best of luck and keep doing what makes you happy.

 

[garrisons2]

I saw one of the earlier posts on this thread that I interpreted to mean that between the half dozen to a dozen regulars here you would know all the GM in the US, Is that possible? How many are there? What do you know about mine Grandmaster Joon Lee, Oak Lawn, IL?

 

[IcemanSK]

I saw one of the earlier posts on this thread that I interpreted to mean that between the half dozen to a dozen regulars here you would know all the GM in the US, Is that possible? How many are there? What do you know about mine Grandmaster Joon Lee, Oak Lawn, IL?

I think you might have misunderstood that post. None of us knows every GM in the US. Although, many of us on here have degrees of knowledge of GM Park, Hae Man (the GM who gave the OP's son his rank).

While I'm from the Chicago area originally, I'm sorry but I don't know your GM.

 

[MasterWright]

I would hope that your degrees come from a reputable organization such as the World TKD Federation or the WKF etc .

Institute (school) degrees are not recognized by these federations, although the instructor may have taught the students well. There was no money sent on their behaf to obtain an official degree. Therefore, this degree should not cost as much. Perhaps enough to compensate for the instructors time,bearing in mind that testings are less often as a black belt.

Just my opinion, we give both degrees to our students. Ours and the Kukkiwon which gives them the right to participate in the games that lead to the Olympics in our sport.

 

[terryl965]

I saw one of the earlier posts on this thread that I interpreted to mean that between the half dozen to a dozen regulars here you would know all the GM in the US, Is that possible? How many are there? What do you know about mine Grandmaster Joon Lee, Oak Lawn, IL?

I know abso;utely nothing but with rbchurch I was able to check the KKW and she is not KKW certified which means she is lieing about being an 8th certified by the KKW. Plan and simple but what I do know is this if he is happy than enjoy.

 

[MasterWright]

Please read my last reply .

Oh Yes... I should say that at our school we charge $350.00 for a First or second Dan. That includes the Instute degree, a Kukkiwn certificate and a Nice new embroidered belt.

Just wanted to include that last tidbit

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

For the record, I learn from a grandmaster and have received all of my ranks from a grandmaster, and I've spent far less than you have, and that includes lessons for my two sons.

Just a clarification: My master is not a KKW 'grandmaster' (8th dan??) He is KKW 6th dan. He holds higher ranks in kumdo and hapkido (9th dan), but is grandmaster by virtue of owning two schools and having four masters (5th dan, one of whom was in the ROK special forces) and four 2nd dan instructors (myself being one of them) teaching in those schools.

In addition, he is a 1992 Korean national champion (taekwondo) and was a hapkido instructor in the ROK special forces and a former body guard for Korean government officials.

In spite of this, he does not make a big deal out of his background or charge extra money for the priviledge of learning from him (his prices are middle of the road for our area). In fact, he didn't have any of this on his website for quite a while and it took me getting to know him over several years of casual conversation to learn his background.

I don't bring this up to say how great my master is compared to anyone else's. I bring it up to point out that one need not pay out copious amounts of money to receive quality instruction and should not be asked to pay more just because someone has a fancy title. I have been blessed in my current school and blessed with some very fine instructors in my past, most of whom have not been anything close to eighth dan.

One thing I have learned:

The titles and rank do not make someone a better practitioner or a good teacher.

They generally denote a level of adminstrative responsibility and contribution to the art.

Daniel

 

[BrandonLucas]

I'm not with KKW or WTF, so please excuse my ignorance on the matter:

But shouldn't there be a blanket testing fee for everyone to be certified as a blackbelt under the KKW? I understand that instructors charge differently for testing fees and all, but I figured that since this is an organization, there should be a regularly set fee to pay for a BB testing for certain dans.

For example: X instructor may charge $100 per test for underbelts and $150 for blackbelts, while Y instructor may charge $75 for underbelts and $120 for blackbelts. Add onto the testing fee for the instructor the blanket certification fee for the organization, and that's the entire cost of the testing.

Surely instructors can't have that much difference in what they charge per testings??

And I can respect having to pay a charge for being certified by an organization overseas, but I still fail to see the light on how a 1st dan gets added up to $7000. I provided a breakdown of costs in an earlier post, and nobody really said one way or the other whether what I was figuring was off or not, but I just couldn't justify paying that much money for training for a 1st dan, even if it was from Gen. Choi himself.

But again, this is just my opinion. If the OP is happy with what was paid for and the school is open, then what does it really matter what the rest of us on this forum say or do? Or what our opinions are of whether the GM is a fake or not? The only opinion I could see mattering in regards to the GM's credibility is someone from the KKW organization.

 

[miguksaram]

I'm not with KKW or WTF, so please excuse my ignorance on the matter:

But shouldn't there be a blanket testing fee for everyone to be certified as a blackbelt under the KKW? I understand that instructors charge differently for testing fees and all, but I figured that since this is an organization, there should be a regularly set fee to pay for a BB testing for certain dans.

The KKW does have a set price for their certifications. Anything above that set price goes to the instructor for his own use. This is not different that any other service or product being sold. If someone is willing to pay for it, then I have no problem with it. My only complaint is when an instructor will lie to the student about where the money goes. Most of them like to blame KKW saying that they are the ones charging that much money which is false. Either the instructor should be honest or tell the student that it is not their concern where the money goes.

 

[miguksaram]

I saw one of the earlier posts on this thread that I interpreted to mean that between the half dozen to a dozen regulars here you would know all the GM in the US, Is that possible? How many are there? What do you know about mine Grandmaster Joon Lee, Oak Lawn, IL?

What is the name of the school. I may know him or of him. What is his full name? I am out of Aurora, IL.

 

[miguksaram]

rbchurch I will only add this your GM is not a GrandMaster with the KKW, so she brought in a real GM anybody can all you have to do is pay the fee. Sorry not what you want to hear but it is what needs to be said.

Did I miss where he said she wasn't affiliated with KKW or gave her full name and date of birth? How did you find out she wasn't a true KKW GM?

 

[IcemanSK]

My understanding from the previous thread was that rchurch's GM was a Kung Fu GM, not TKD.

Also from the previous thread (if I recall correctly), she charged folks testing for various KKW dan ranks a total of between $27K-$32K to test in front of GM Park, Hae Man. I believe there were less than 7 people testing!

As I put it before, rchurch basically paid for Mick Jagger to perform a private party for his son.

Our own Miles recently had GM Park come to his school for forms seminars. I'd be willing to bet he didn't have that kind of money in the transaction with GM Park.

Rchurch's GM pocketed an obscene amount of cash to test these few
people!

Rchurch, it's your money to do with as you wish. I'm truly glad you are happy with the way they turned turned out. But you could have gotten the eact same experience for your son (including GM Park) for a fraction of what you & the few others were charged.

I wish you all the best with your school.

 

[Lynne]

The black belt test fee (for 1st dan) at our school is either $200 or $250 (can't remember the exact amount, sorry). The fee includes a new uniform, an embroidered belt and black belt certificate. In addition, our Grandmaster and other masters travel to NY to sit on the testing panel. I suppose that some travel fees come out of the $250, Maybe.

I know the fees get higher the higher the belt level. Not anything really outrageous though. The rumor, and it's only a rumor folks, is that 4th dan (master) costs $2,000. I'm not including tuition of course. Tuition is very reasonable.

Just a sidenote - Grandmaster Byrne and Master Mitchell travel from Massachusetts to teach clinics at our school. Those clinics are between $25.00 and $40.00. GM Byrne is a 9th dan. Master Mitchell is a 7th dan.

 

[DMcHenry]

I just read the original post and saw the question "Am I being ripped off".

My answer, ABSOLUTLY!

She is full of crap - just taking advantage of you.

PS: the KKW 1st Dan cert fee is only $70.

 

[Muwubu16858]

Originally posted by Lynne
The rumor, and it's only a rumor folks, is that 4th dan (master) costs $2,000.

I can't quote the Kukiwon price, as I stopped being a member there at 2nd Dan, but I do know that in Tang Soo Do, many instructors do charge quite a bit for higher dans. I won't mention any names, but I know of a man who just dished out around $6000 or more for his 9th Dan with a Moo Duk Kwan senior.

 

[JadeDragon3]

$7000 for 1st Dan and $4000 more for 2nd.......thats Fn' crazy. And the way it sounded from the post is he didn't even earn the belts (or learn the material). He just wanted the belts so he could open a kung fu school but say he was teaching TKD because it brings in more students. WOW.

 

[JadeDragon3]

Thats why I like kung fu. I can open a school and not have to worry about politics. I don't have anyone telling me how or what to teach, no annual fees, and no B.S.. I can teach however I want and whatever I want.....well you know what I mean.