My Dojo Is Becoming Infected

[terryl965]

Shinobi when you do please post want and how it went.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I DO extend it to everyone. The sign on my outer breezeway door says "Private Property--No Soliciting". That usually does it.

I've never witnessed anyone try to take it further than that but if they DO ever slide open my breezeway door and try to Enter the house to my front door, the sign, inside the breezeway, on the front door, saying "PRIVATE PROPERTY--NO TRESPASSING--VIOLATORS WIL BE SHOT-SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN" ought to sufficiently get the message across.

(Well, okay, I bought the second sign as a joke, and my folks didn't like the second one, so took it down last month, but you get the idea. I don't ever welcome ANYONE to my home who I do not know and/or have not invited).

Yes, the no soliciting sign pretty much blankets everyone, and I suppose that if you have a camera snaping pics of everyone who comes to the door, technically, trespassers are 'shot'. Though on private property, you'd be well within your rights to have a 'no proselytizing' sign as well.

But in the original post that I replied to...

Yes. As far as I am concerned the law should be modified so as to include this as trespassing. Ditto any other religion but it seems I've only ever had Christians or people who claim to be Christians do this. They learn very quickly to Leave Now And Never Come Back.

...you had couched it as making it illegal for people to do the door to door preaching which is very different from a property owner simply banning all forms proselytizing from his or her own land. That is why I asked about whether or not you felt that such a law should extend to other forms of door knocking as well. In my area at least, it is not considered trespassing to do door to door sales, take petitions door to door, or for kids to go trying to solicit donations for school events. Thus, in order to avoid any one group or groups crying foul on grounds of religious discrimination, the state would pretty much have to make door-knocking in general illegal.

Daniel

 

[Aiki Lee]

Shinobi when you do please post want and how it went.

Yes, I'm interested too.

 

[Tez3]

Yes, the no soliciting sign pretty much blankets everyone, and I suppose that if you have a camera snaping pics of everyone who comes to the door, technically, trespassers are 'shot'. Though on private property, you'd be well within your rights to have a 'no proselytizing' sign as well.

But in the original post that I replied to...



...you had couched it as making it illegal for people to do the door to door preaching which is very different from a property owner simply banning all forms proselytizing from his or her own land. That is why I asked about whether or not you felt that such a law should extend to other forms of door knocking as well. In my area at least, it is not considered trespassing to do door to door sales, take petitions door to door, or for kids to go trying to solicit donations for school events. Thus, in order to avoid any one group or groups crying foul on grounds of religious discrimination, the state would pretty much have to make door-knocking in general illegal.

Daniel

We have no law of trespass in England (it's a so called wooden law, it's not a criminal charge but you can take it to civil court, at your own expense not the publics), people can only be charged if they cause damage so banning people from your doorstep is difficult.
I find a big dog and a sign saying survivors will be prosecuted works wonders! I've seen a sign that says 'my dog can go from the door to the gate in 5 seconds, if you can do it in less you're welcome to try'.

 

[AoCAdam]

Hmm that is very interesting. Is this happening alot recently or is this just an instance few and far between?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hmm that is very interesting. Is this happening alot recently or is this just an instance few and far between?

Dojos going churchy? Don't know. I know a good number of Christian martial arts groups, but they often teach on church grounds as an offering to existing Christians who simply want either a Christ centered philosophy or who do not want any non-Christian philosphy.

Daniel

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Yes, the no soliciting sign pretty much blankets everyone, and I suppose that if you have a camera snaping pics of everyone who comes to the door, technically, trespassers are 'shot'. Though on private property, you'd be well within your rights to have a 'no proselytizing' sign as well.

But in the original post that I replied to...



...you had couched it as making it illegal for people to do the door to door preaching which is very different from a property owner simply banning all forms proselytizing from his or her own land. That is why I asked about whether or not you felt that such a law should extend to other forms of door knocking as well. In my area at least, it is not considered trespassing to do door to door sales, take petitions door to door, or for kids to go trying to solicit donations for school events. Thus, in order to avoid any one group or groups crying foul on grounds of religious discrimination, the state would pretty much have to make door-knocking in general illegal.

Daniel

You would think, wanting to be a writer, I'd learn to narrow down my words within one context a little better.

But yes, I see your point, and agree.

 

[horton]

Hey Shinobi,

How are you?

I\'m a Christian and a martial artist too. (Been both for about twenty years or so)

I can understand your dilemma and if possible, I\'d like to help you out here. Before I can, however, just so I have a little context, could you please define what you mean when you state that you\'re a non-practicing Christian?

Best regards,
TCG

maybe church on christmas and easter

 

[Skippy]

I'm not a Christian. Come to think of it I'm not really religious at all. When I'm training or teaching or even around students or other martial artist. I avoid talking about religious or political beliefs. It's much better that way.:soapbox:

 

[xfighter88]

By the Christian virus.
Now, I am a Christian, albeit a non practicing one, and I've never had anything against the fact that my Sensei is ALSO a minister who runs his own church (which most of the people at my dojo attend.) That was, however, until he made the announcement that we would now be assigned patches that had the kanji for "Army of the Cross" or an eagle with a cross infront of it.

Now, I've never been one to complain about him making analogies to the bible during training, or anything of the like, and as said I AM a Christian and I'm sorry if this post offends anyone, but I am NOT looking for a church. I feel that these patches my sensei is commanding us to wear force me to scream that I believe in this, which I don't believe is right, because we have several people in training who are NOT Christian, who are liberals that are already alienated enough by Sensei's beliefs, but forcing them to wear a patch saying they believe in a God they may or may not believe in is, I believe, wrong.

I'll agree, Christian values can be good, and that in theory, a martial art should drive you to become a better person, but this should be the martial art itself, the discipline you get as you rise through your ranks, not by being told stories out of an old book.

I don't know how to really say this without offending anybody, so I'm sorry if I did, but I just want to know everyone's thoughts on this. Am I taking a patch too seriously? I understand that it's just a cloth, but I feel like it's the beginning of so much more, like eventually he'll say "You MUST attend the church if you plan to continue training." Please, I want to hear everyone's feedback, this is something that has been bothering me to the poitn where I've even considered leaving my dojo.

A few things:
1. this is the USA you feel free to quit the dojo if you don't like it. your instructor owns a private business. He doesn't have to change anything if he doesn't want to.
2. You say that you are a Christian but not practicing. Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. That's like saying you are a vegitarian but you still eat meat every day.
3. I don't get what you are saying about focusing on the martial art to improve oneself. Wouldn't you say that the ideals of martial arts are pretty close to the ideals that Christ showed. (integrity, generosity, and treating everyone fairly)

Okay now it's my turn to "offend" people. Don't walk around calling yourself a Christian if you get offended by people who are actually living out the faith that they and you claim to be.

 

[Mider1985]

By the Christian virus.
Now, I am a Christian, albeit a non practicing one, and I've never had anything against the fact that my Sensei is ALSO a minister who runs his own church (which most of the people at my dojo attend.) That was, however, until he made the announcement that we would now be assigned patches that had the kanji for "Army of the Cross" or an eagle with a cross infront of it.

Now, I've never been one to complain about him making analogies to the bible during training, or anything of the like, and as said I AM a Christian and I'm sorry if this post offends anyone, but I am NOT looking for a church. I feel that these patches my sensei is commanding us to wear force me to scream that I believe in this, which I don't believe is right, because we have several people in training who are NOT Christian, who are liberals that are already alienated enough by Sensei's beliefs, but forcing them to wear a patch saying they believe in a God they may or may not believe in is, I believe, wrong.

I'll agree, Christian values can be good, and that in theory, a martial art should drive you to become a better person, but this should be the martial art itself, the discipline you get as you rise through your ranks, not by being told stories out of an old book.

I don't know how to really say this without offending anybody, so I'm sorry if I did, but I just want to know everyone's thoughts on this. Am I taking a patch too seriously? I understand that it's just a cloth, but I feel like it's the beginning of so much more, like eventually he'll say "You MUST attend the church if you plan to continue training." Please, I want to hear everyone's feedback, this is something that has been bothering me to the poitn where I've even considered leaving my dojo.

If your not a practicing christian then what are you? I mean if im a cop and i never go out on duty then how am i cop? But anyway I am also a minister, if he's gonna be doing that He should just change the name to Christian martial arts or whatever, because he shouldnt be forcing people to wear religious symbols in stuff they dont believe in. You cant force religion down someones throat no matter how much you try or have a good intention with it it only works if God lets them get it if there ready to recieve it ANYWAY. Yeah why dont you just tell him he shouldnt do this, dont be afraid of him. Or tell him to change the name to Christian martial arts or whatever. by the way Christianity is not a virus. Only thing that is a virus is ignorence, and biggotry things like that are a virus

 

[Skippy]

If your not a practicing christian then what are you? I mean if im a cop and i never go out on duty then how am i cop? But anyway I am also a minister, if he's gonna be doing that He should just change the name to Christian martial arts or whatever, because he shouldnt be forcing people to wear religious symbols in stuff they dont believe in. You cant force religion down someones throat no matter how much you try or have a good intention with it it only works if God lets them get it if there ready to recieve it ANYWAY. Yeah why dont you just tell him he shouldnt do this, dont be afraid of him. Or tell him to change the name to Christian martial arts or whatever. by the way Christianity is not a virus. Only thing that is a virus is ignorence, and biggotry things like that are a virus

Wow!

Well due to the horns on top of my head I could never go into a church as if I did I would burst into flames.:flame:

 

[Cirdan]

Wow!

Well due to the horns on top of my head I could never go into a church as if I did I would burst into flames.:flame:

I`m told wearing heavy sunblock and walking backwards over the dorstep helps protect you. Also tucking the tail into one of your pant legs is advidable as it is more sensitive to the holy fire.

 

[punisher73]

I am a 100% hardcore fundementalist Christain, but I don't think he should be forcing anything off on his class.

Our faith dictates that you should not force your faith off on others. People have to come on their own.

Voice your opposition and be prepared to leave.

I agree, I have always thought that the best ministry to others is to live a life that makes them ask you deeper questions and provide an opportunity to talk with them about your faith. No one likes other people's beliefs always thrown in your face, even if you do agree with them.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Couple of centerfolds taped to the changing room door, a gay rights pamphlet or 2 in the lobby, and make sure your lobby music is Marilyn Manson. That'll drive the buggers right out. Be sure to add a pentacle to your school patch as well.

Seriously, in cases like this you either discuss the matter and air your concerns with the instructors/owners and come to an understanding and happy conclusion, or you leave, or you stay silent and suck it up. Some people take their religion seriously.

 

[Joab]

It's his school, he can require anything he wants, if you don't like it you can leave. Sure, you should talk with him about it, if the answer isn't what you want to hear, leave. It's really that simple.

 

[Jdokan]

In full agreement with Joab...If there is something that goes against your beliefs...make a decision.....I think that is what typically occurs when most students leave their instructor...difference of opinion...not necessarily a bad thing....Good luck with your decision, I've been there, it does weigh on you!

 

[kenkyukai]

By the Christian virus.
Now, I am a Christian, albeit a non practicing one, and I've never had anything against the fact that my Sensei is ALSO a minister who runs his own church (which most of the people at my dojo attend.) That was, however, until he made the announcement that we would now be assigned patches that had the kanji for "Army of the Cross" or an eagle with a cross infront of it.

Now, I've never been one to complain about him making analogies to the bible during training, or anything of the like, and as said I AM a Christian and I'm sorry if this post offends anyone, but I am NOT looking for a church. I feel that these patches my sensei is commanding us to wear force me to scream that I believe in this, which I don't believe is right, because we have several people in training who are NOT Christian, who are liberals that are already alienated enough by Sensei's beliefs, but forcing them to wear a patch saying they believe in a God they may or may not believe in is, I believe, wrong.

I'll agree, Christian values can be good, and that in theory, a martial art should drive you to become a better person, but this should be the martial art itself, the discipline you get as you rise through your ranks, not by being told stories out of an old book.

I don't know how to really say this without offending anybody, so I'm sorry if I did, but I just want to know everyone's thoughts on this. Am I taking a patch too seriously? I understand that it's just a cloth, but I feel like it's the beginning of so much more, like eventually he'll say "You MUST attend the church if you plan to continue training." Please, I want to hear everyone's feedback, this is something that has been bothering me to the poitn where I've even considered leaving my dojo.

Shinobi,
Sorry you got wrapped up in that , Fundamentalist religion is the greatest threat the world faces today. As americans, the news tells us that its all in the middle east, they lie alot.

 

[K831]

I have rarely seen a patch for any studio that didn't carry with it some religious connotation, mythology, ideology, ethic etc.... for some reason when Christians do it, it's a big deal.

Sounds like our instructor was pretty legit from the beginning about his faith, and his level of commitment to it, so I don't think you have any cause to be upset with his redesign of the patch. I think it is his school, and he can infuse his religion as much, or as little, as he chooses.

I am deeply religious, however, I am not as "flamboyant" about it as many Christians, and the trendy, ware it on your sleeve like its a brand name approach bugs me.

If the environment or culture he is creating withing his school makes you uncomfortable enough, I wouldn't blame you for a second for leaving. If you decide "eh, he means well and I like most of the teachings just fine anyways so it doesn't bother me" than stay.

Totally up to you. Do let him know your concerns though, so you can leave it as adults if need be. Hopefully he is "Christian enough" to be open and understanding of your personal choice.

Good luck.

 

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

well I'm rather impressed to see that people opened up a topic that had died out in february (almost a year ago!)

To wrap up, hopefully for good, then I will announce that I have since quit training with aforementioned teacher and began my journey anew in Kajukenbo with a largely secular teacher and environment. Sadly enough, my old dojo suffered too much from its religious dealings, becoming almost more of a hang-out rather than a school for martial arts. To those who were offended, this is what I meant by "virus", in the sense that a virus invades the body and prevents it from functioning. In this case, the "body" was the dojo, and the Christian "virus" prevented training from occuring. I have no qualms with people who call themselves Christian, or anything, really, so long as it does not interfere with other people.

And in response to a previous post, I realized on my own the hypocricy of calling myself a non-practicing Christian, and have thus decided that I am simply without religion. Call it agnosticism if you like, but I do not believe the human mind can comprehend what truly created existence, nor do I believe it was as simple as an omnipotent being.

Thank you all for your posts, but this topic has gone on far too long.