My basic problem with YOU.

[granfire]

Thats the "feel good" interpretation of abortion IMO. "It's just a bunch of cells" may apply if the abortion happens pretty soon into the pregnancy. But we all know that little humans with all the limbs, eyes, brains and organs the rest of us have get chopped up and washed out as well.

Abortion for medical reasons? Absolutely. Rape? I can be convinced. As "oops I forgot my pill?" No...can't agree with that at all.

Oye veh....

we are back on the abortion kick, aren't we....

The point is, you guys don't get the point.

The point being, while you may have an opinion, and are allowed to express it freely (however much it bothers some people)

You may not expect or demand that everybody adheres to your believe system and adopts your opinion.

I believe abortion should be a woman's issue. My opinion is that until guys can squeeze a watermelon out of their you-know-whats they have no valuable input.

Does that mean I can tell you guys to shut up? No.

But so far we are having a bunch of supposedly grownups who have a hizzy fit when called out on either their rude behavior or the false information they try to spread.
I mean, seriously, I'd spank my kid if he ever behaved like that!

it's a lack of basic manners, plain as that.

 

[yorkshirelad]

But so far we are having a bunch of supposedly grownups who have a hizzy fit when called out on either their rude behavior or the false information they try to spread. </p>I mean, seriously, I'd spank my kid if he ever behaved like that!


it's a lack of basic manners, plain as that.

It's bad manners to speak out against killing babies? Wow, that's a new one!

 

[Nomad]

It's bad manners to speak out against killing babies? Wow, that's a new one!

Riiiiigggght. And "killing babies" is the evocative and emotional language that anti-choice types tend to bander about. Please, let's get one thing straight here... a fetus is not a baby. They're two different entities. A baby is capable of breathing on it's own and surviving outside the womb, a fetus is absolutely dependent upon the mother for life.

At best, a fetus has the potential to become a baby; at worst, it could technically be considered a parasite on the mother (I don't consider it such, but simply state another side of the argument). Miscarriages of non-viable fetuses occur quite regularly; often the fetus is no bigger than a few divided cells at the time. No one that I'm aware of considers this the death of a baby but if it occurs considerably later (especially when it has begun to develop more of the characteristics of an infant, and when the parents have invested significantly emotionally in this potential change in their lives), a miscarriage is often mourned in similar fashion to the death of a baby.

When the fetus has a solid chance to survive on it's own outside the womb (with modern infant ICU for instance), it is a much grayer area, and for that reason (and the fact that it's much more dangerous for the woman as well) I'm personally against late-stage abortions except in extreme circumstances (eg severe risk of death to the mother, etc.)

Doctors do not abort babies. They abort unwanted fetuses; whether the pregnancy occurred through rape or as a mistake is not my business. If a woman decides that having a child will ruin her life (or ruin her life now), then I believe that she's the only person who has the right to decide that, and to choose not to have a baby instead.

I agree with granfire strongly on this one; as someone who possesses a penis, I have a right to my opinion on this subject, but can be confidently certain that it will never directly be a question I have to face in my life. As such, I concede that I have no right to set policy for millions of women who might have to face such a decision.

 

[Blade96]

Technically, it is only a human being when the sperm and egg meet and start the magic process. Until they meet, they are unviable tissues.

Nope. When it meets, it is a single cell. One cell is not a human being. Even 8 cells is not a human being.

But enough about that. I think some opinions turn into rules we all follow. People thought killing another (born) person is murder, and thats not allowed.

and some opinions arent set rules written on paper but we just know its not right to do.

Helping the needy? Knock yerselves out. I think that should be a responsibility, not an option.

Abortion? If you dont like it, then don't have one. But don't force me to carry a pregnancy to term.

 

[WC_lun]

My wife, when she was a teenager, had an abortion. She was convinced she was ready for something she wasn't and afterward decided she could not carry a child to term. Her family is very religious and she carries guilt over it these many years later. I believe abortion is a very serious decision and my personal view is it should only be used in rare instances. I don't think the government should be the one making this decision. There is a ton of grey area for most people on this issue. What I do know without a doubt is my wife has high morals and she is not a murderer.

 

[Blade96]

The one thing I do like about pro - lifers is that at least they remind us that abortion is a serious thing to do and the decision should never be made lightly.

 

[granfire]

The one thing I do like about pro - lifers is that at least they remind us that abortion is a serious thing to do and the decision should never be made lightly.

It should not be done lightly, no. But the decision should rest with the person who will have to live with the consequences.

HOWEVER....

this is not the point of this discussion.

The point is that some people think it is ok to be rude to bully somebody into agreeing with them.
discuss.

 

[Blade96]

I would not bully someone into agreeing with me. I don't think that's right. I was bullied. Its gross. I wouldn't do it to someone else. Even if they believed that Hitler was a socialist or that abortion should be illegal for everyone. I'd campaign against em to keep it legal, but i would not bully them and make them agree with me by force.

and yeah the abortion decision rests with the person in question who'll be having it.

 

[Nomad]

The point is that some people think it is ok to be rude to bully somebody into agreeing with them.
discuss.

I know that these tactics tend to backfire with me. A reasoned argument that gets your point across without debasing your opponent is, in my opinion, much more effective. Not to mention classy.

Insulting your opponent is a good indication that you lack a more cogent argument to support your belief.

 

[Blade96]

Some of my best friends atuniversity are pro lifers and conservatives. I still have some of them on Facebook.

I love it when people of very different beliefs and backgrounds can be friends, get along, and be classy without bullying or anything. Its cute and sweet.

 

[WC_lun]

My best friend is right wing conservative. I respect that. Sometimes we argue even heatedly, but never denigrate. It is because we respect each other and niether of us are so arrogant to think we are 100% right, 100% ofthe time.

 

[Blade96]

My best friend is right wing conservative. I respect that. Sometimes we argue even heatedly, but never denigrate. It is because we respect each other and niether of us are so arrogant to think we are 100% right, 100% ofthe time.

Yay for cute.

 

[WC_lun]

LOL I doubt either of us would come close to falling under the category of cute

 

[granfire]

LOL I doubt either of us would come close to falling under the category of cute

yes, yes, you are cute!

 

[WC_lun]

yes, yes, you are cute!

I hate you!

 

[Sukerkin]

:splutters with laughter at the last couple of exchanges: I empathise, Lun - my missus has still not learned that to call a chap "cute" is tantermount to an insult :lol:.

 

[Sukerkin]

Eck! No hiding from the MT software I just noticed - it's already registered my tick upwards in the age department .

 

[Sukerkin]

My best friend is right wing conservative. I respect that. Sometimes we argue even heatedly, but never denigrate. It is because we respect each other and niether of us are so arrogant to think we are 100% right, 100% ofthe time.

This is a most important point :tup:. I quite agree that it is a laudible goal to achieve if you can be held in good regard by contributors from both ends of a continuum.

I take pride in the fact that, here on MT, people with widely divergent and passionately held conflicting beliefs think that I am "alright". It is a compliment that I value greatly. In return, I would more than happily share a table in a real-world pub with them too; for if you can argue vehemently and still respect a person then that is the grounds for true understanding of each other :bows:.

 

[granfire]

I hate you!

:inlove:

CUUUUUUUUTTTEEE

 

[WC_lun]

STRONG Hate!!!