Multiple styles

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I guess if I was training in an art that was obviously lacking in particular areas, or worse yet in its overall teaching, I'd just go someplace else...

Gambarimasu.

Yeah but not everyone is as smart as you or me

I personally count myself lucky, Kali has everything I need and Im lucky enough to have a teacher with an extensive knowledge of Hapkido and limited knowledge in Wing Chun, Karate and BJJ :asian: It's all good

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
It can be done wrong.....It can be done right. In my opinion it is WRONG if you start straight off with 4 or 5 arts as it is increasingly hard to get a decent base. However if you have a decent base in whatever art (I'm talking like at least a Black Belt) then it is okay to start cross training. I think 3 arts is MY maximum for cross training.....I dont disagree with those who choose to do 7 but I do think thats a bit much. I do however think that some arts are great for cross training like TKD and Hapkido so I wouldnt mind doing Kali, Wing Chun, Hapkido & TKD. But anymore then three completly differant styles and I would find it hard to juggle :asian:

I agree with you 100% it is wrong to start in more than one style and it is also wrong to have multiple style training before having a solid base ( at least a black belt )

:redeme:

 

[Zujitsuka]

Cross-training...

That depends on YOUR goals.

I train for self-protection so I feel that cross-training is a must. Currently I'm training in an eclectic form of Jujutsu and Western Boxing. To keep things interesting, this fall I'll replace Western Boxing with something else - perhaps some form of grappling.

For those that are into cross-training, take your time. There is no need to sign up for everything at once. Always remember that there are other kool things to be doing besides being in the ring or on the mat. Also, it can get expensive you know.

I don't recommend for TOTAL NEWBIES (i.e. those not physically fit who also lack any martial arts/combat sport experience) to cross-train because of two things:

1- You can get conflicting concepts; and

2- The physical conditioning foundation necessary to become proficient is differs from style to style...

Boxers don't train the same way a WuShu stylist does, and an Aikidoka doesn't train the same way as a Kickboxer.

That physical conditioning foundation has to be built before you can execute techniques properly.

 

[chufeng]

I will relate a story from my early days in YiLiQuan...you can draw your own conclusions.

I just passed out of "basic training" (basic lasted eight weeks) and had received my white sash (back then, you started with no sash and tested for your first sash...at the white sash level, we learned XingYiQuan)...I was about four weeks into my XingYi training...

A relatively new YiLi student (a second degree black belt in xxx's Tae Kwon Do...he had come to our school to learn more effective hand techniques) and I were matched up for SanDa (free sparring)...Now, this guy's kicks were lightning fast...and at a given range they could pack a good deal of force...once I figured out his distance it was VERY easy to walk right over the top of him...he actually requested NOT to be matched with me again...eventually he quit and didn't come back.
Even though he recognized he needed work on his "hand techniques" he wasn't ready for the kind of training we did...he had been with xxx for over four years; yet, after 12 weeks in YiLi, I basically owned his real estate...(That is not a testament about YiLi...it is an indication of the quality of that particular student)

I can't say that xxx taught poorly (although our school had encounters with several of his students over time, with similar results) but he certainly wasn't providing REAL training. Maybe he was training his folks for TaeKwonDo tournament fighting...and I don't have a problem with that...but he advertised "self-defense and self-confidence" as part of the training...many of his students went to other places to learn things that seemed to be lacking in that dojang...the kicker is, most of them were VERY worried that xxx would find out, so they kept it very quiet. Bottom line: no real self-defense and obviously not much self-confidence...
xxx made a TON of money because of his advertising and marketing...yet his students learned very little about REAL martial arts.

Sometimes it is necessary to go elsewhere...
What amazes me is that even though these students realized what they were learning, at that particular dojang, was junk, they continued to train there...I guess the prospect of easy rank, or there egos ("I'm already a black belt and won't give that up.") got in the way of a rational decision...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
I agree with you 100% it is wrong to start in more than one style and it is also wrong to have multiple style training before having a solid base ( at least a black belt )

:redeme:

When I was a student of my brother-in-law he taught Karate, Judo/Jujutsu, Kobudo, Aikido and Kumiuchi in the same school and many of us were students of all classes.

Each class was separate.

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by akja
When I was a student of my brother-in-law he taught Karate, Judo/Jujutsu, Kobudo, Aikido and Kumiuchi in the same school and many of us were students of all classes.

Each class was separate.

Much to confusing for me!

In my opinion you shouldnt train in more than two styles at once unless they are directly related ( Same basic movements, forms, ect. ) less chance of mixing one style to another.:asian:

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
Much to confusing for me!

In my opinion you shouldnt train in more than two styles at once unless they are directly related ( Same basic movements, forms, ect. ) less chance of mixing one style to another.:asian:

Which is what I said earlier

akja......My apologies....I didnt mention in my post that it also boils down to the person. Some people can work in more then 3 styles because they treat it like its ONE massive style with many differant sectors. Me and my low concentration span however cannot deal with it like that. Some people can, some people cant......I still wouldnt recommend starting with 7 differant styles :asian:

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
Which is what I said earlier

Yeh! I guess we agree on this one.

I am a quick learner but I feel you should master at least one style and this would be hard if you train in to many styles, I believe in cross training but not to much.:asian:

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by DAC..florida

Originally posted by Master of Blades
Which is what I said earlier

Yeh! I guess we agree on this one.

I am a quick learner but I feel you should master at least one style and this would be hard if you train in to many styles, I believe in cross training but not to much.:asian:

Dont get me wrong........nothing against it.....its just not for me.......Yet

 

[arnisador]

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[SpiritFists936]

cross training is the most important thing you can do in the pursuit of becoming a complete martial artist. All martial arts fall under a few principles, but you should be subjected to all the different arts so that you can be sure you are in the right art for you. in the system i take you have to get a black belt in at least one other art before you can attain 2nd degree black. all martial artists should be able to strike effetivley, lock effectivley, and throw effectivley, because when in a real situation you want to be able to use whatever knowledge you can against you opponent, so the more weapons in your arsenal the better.

 

[J-kid]

I train crosstrain all the time, the reason getting ready for mixed martial arts (fighting in the cage)

I train in Judo,BJJ,submission wrestling,school wrestling or collegent wrestling. (learning some freestyle and greco from diffrent people) Also for striking Boxing and MTkickboxing.

I train at AMC pankration which covers boxing/mtkickboxing/submissionwrestling

US judo training center which covers
Judo but we do learn some wrestling/freestyle/greeco throws and takedowns

Credit boxing covers
Good old fashion western boxing to fine tune my striking with my hands

and last but not least

School wrestling
Wrestling heh takedowns and ground control



All together i have to train nearly 5 hours a day and when wrestling season starts may be up 6 and a half excluding weekends where i dont train as hard.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

How many train in more than one style or have in the past?

If so why?

How many train in more than one style or have in the past?

Yup...for the following reasons...

--Nobody at the school I was at was showing me anything new, so I went outside to look for more information. So I did it to fight off staleness.

--To see what others are doing, and add insights into how that relates to what I'm doing, or not doing...not necessarily with the goal of adopting that method, but to look at the approach to a problem.

--For some people, more than one art makes a big emotional on them. Some people, for instance, reeeally love Muay Thai and reeeally love CSW. So they do both.

--To fill in the blanks. Some styles don't go to the ground, others don't do weapons, others are deficient in their stand up game. Cross training integrates strengths and overcomes weaknesses. #2 above is closely related to this process...but can be distinct from it.

--To compliment a method with material similar, but slightly different, than your style. Jun Fan guys might study Wing Chun. Modern Arnis people might go to Balintawak to gain some insights into their roots.

Cross training gets a person over that stylistic bigotry so many martial artists have...this keeps us from trash talking like we're characters in some silly Chinese kung fu movie.

"My Ten Plum Fist will overcome your Diving Monkey Claw!"

(Bad example...that technique really does work...I killed a Diving Monkey Claw guy with it once. Everybody knows Diving Monkey Claw guys can't fight their way out of a paper bag.)

SCS

 

[hapki-bujutsu]

When I reached the level of 4th black in jujitsu I thought I knew it all. Then I saw kenpo and after 3 years got my 2nd black and figured i new it all. Then I studied hapkido. after that jkd and so on and so on. The key is to never stop learning if you are happy with the system you are in keep going with it. If you feel you have gotten all you can from it go on to somthing else. Just make sure the system you are training in is giving you the type of training you want. ie internal, sport, or combat. Most of all enjoy what you are doing and don't stop training.

 

[loki09789]

Back in the day... okay I wasn't there, but if the modern military is any indication then this is what makes sense to me:

The goal of martial arts was/is primarily martial.

The Marine Corps drilled the goal to be "locate, close with and destroy the enemy, or repel the enemy's assault with fire and manuever..." and we stole techniques and tricks from the best. We took some of this and some of that and made it our own. Even the lowliest private could contribute to how a small unit operated. If it worked, it might even be written into the unit Standard Operating Procedure.

But that was because the purpose of training was strictly combat effectiveness, not the preservation of an art or culture. The history/culture of the USMC was taught to create a pride in the next lineage of Marines to make them better fighters.

I think that cross training is effective at any level of training, as long as your goal is to be self defense effective. It might take longer to get ranked or mastery of an artistic/technical style, but it could make for a stronger martial artist.

How much of the 'inner strategies/secrets' of any art do you really get until your at least higher green/brown anyway? Taking multiple disciplines might expose some common fundamentals to a student faster because they see them being applied in a wider spectrum of movement styles.

Once you decide to commit to mastery though, choosing a system will focus all of that experience for better understanding of the movement/goals of an art.

Paul Martin

 

[bushi jon]

I did kali for 13 years now doing jujutsu and kenpo

 

[IMAA]

I feel cross training is very important to your martial arts training. It will give you a very open understanding to what your after. Some arts teach in a matter of months what some take many years to reach. I do agree you need to stick w/ one art till you reach its advanced level then open your mind and doors from there on.

Some of the arts I've done:
American Karate 3rd dan
ChungDoKwan TKD 2nd dan
Kali/Escrima/Arnis =No specific rank but been at it for many yrs.

Other arts I have been exposed to for either a minimal amount of time or an extended amount of time:

Silat, JunFanJKD, Wing Chun, SHEN CHUAN, 7star praying mantis Kung Fu, RyuKyuKenpo, Kyusho jutsu, Muay Thai, American Kickboxing, Savate, Russian Systema, Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ, Police Tactics, Bando, Kenpo, Shurie Ryu Karate Do, Northern White Crane Kung Fu..... Thats bout all I have had exposure too....now i do not rank in any of these but have trained certain lengths of time either in classes, or seminars or with someone I knew that does these arts. So I feel I learnt something from them all....

 

[jwreck]

IMAA, what are your thoughts on Shen Chuan?