Twin Fist
Grandmaster
oh hell no. Last thing I want to do. I can think of easier ways to get dead.....LOL
MMA vs. SD
- Thread starter ATC
- Start date
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
absolutely true.
i was talking about that with Steve last week. Very hard to make bb in bjj.
NOW
it was hard to make BB in anything 40 years ago when karate schools were as hard to find as REAL bjj is today..
just wait a few years, BJJ will prob go the way of TKD. Strip malls, 10 year old BB's, etc
it is the nature of the business.
Nolerama
Master Black Belt
So on this forum, it's okay to call MMA practitioners lazy? That we're taking the "easy way"?
You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you get to bash MMA people like it's an annoyance to you? TF, you sound like the dude from The Foot Fist Way in the way that your TKD is deadly, has SD application, and is far superior to anything a lowly, non belted person like me can say... But whatever.
You win because you type louder.
I also think MMA "Fanboys" suck. But they suck in the same way people walking around with a "bought" black belts do. And there are a ton of them running around. But they're definitely not in any BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo or Western boxing organization and if they do exist, it's few and far between.
I wish I had the gall or insecurity to tell people these forums that I despise any one art, learning method or style, but I can't because I actually care about others from different styles. I respect MAists for what they do, generally speaking. I don't need to stereotype.
Easy way out? Ha!
You have no idea what you're talking about.
And you get to bash MMA people like it's an annoyance to you? TF, you sound like the dude from The Foot Fist Way in the way that your TKD is deadly, has SD application, and is far superior to anything a lowly, non belted person like me can say... But whatever.
You win because you type louder.
I also think MMA "Fanboys" suck. But they suck in the same way people walking around with a "bought" black belts do. And there are a ton of them running around. But they're definitely not in any BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo or Western boxing organization and if they do exist, it's few and far between.
I wish I had the gall or insecurity to tell people these forums that I despise any one art, learning method or style, but I can't because I actually care about others from different styles. I respect MAists for what they do, generally speaking. I don't need to stereotype.
Easy way out? Ha!
redantstyle
Blue Belt
burst my bubble? yeah okay buddy.
who ever said 'all' of anybody? ime, most tma'ers suck. indeed very few are actually 'combat' trained.
and what do any of the people you encountered have to do with me?
(answer: nothing)
I could care less what you have seen. the world is alot bigger that what you have seen.
my ideas? lol, again, sir...lol.
and btw, i never said anything decrying the 'functional validity' of any art. stop trying to put words in my mouth.
what makes you think i have any students? again, you are assuming that you know anything about my training, which you dont.
eh, i am talking about someone born in 1917, who was a veteran of WW2 and the Indonesian independance war. try looking in Stars and Stripes magazine around 1941 or 42 for the 'Red Ant'.
and if you would pay attention, you would see that i am discussing methodologies and intent.
with all due respect, i suggest you stop assuming.
regards,
JMBarr
RedAntGungFu
akaktk
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
TKD IS deadly, or can be if taught and used right
it DOES have self defense applications, or can, if taught and used right
that doesnt make it superior.
I have never said anything was better than anything else
I have only said they are different
Daniel pointed out that some things ARE better than others, depending on what the goal is
thats true, but I didnt even go that far.
seriously, is reading comprehension a problem for you? maybe you are dyslexic? cuz i didnt say anything was better than anything else. Never did I use the word "lazy"
do you normally make stuff up and accuse someone of saying it?
And i respect Martial artists too
I am one
Anyway, I am tired of you now. you are boring me.
I was asked a specific question, I answered it, i will let you know when I care if you agree or not.
it DOES have self defense applications, or can, if taught and used right
that doesnt make it superior.
I have never said anything was better than anything else
I have only said they are different
Daniel pointed out that some things ARE better than others, depending on what the goal is
thats true, but I didnt even go that far.
seriously, is reading comprehension a problem for you? maybe you are dyslexic? cuz i didnt say anything was better than anything else. Never did I use the word "lazy"
do you normally make stuff up and accuse someone of saying it?
And i respect Martial artists too
I am one
Anyway, I am tired of you now. you are boring me.
I was asked a specific question, I answered it, i will let you know when I care if you agree or not.
redantstyle
Blue Belt
those are post-restoration arts.
right, but some arts are STILL Traditional in the definition you have here. and some are not. they do exist.
as far as the military indoctrination goes, my experience in the marine corps says different.
there is some literature out there about studies conducted in ww2 concerning the 'killer instinct'. they found many soldiers fired over the heads of the enemy. military indoc was changed accordingly. at least in the Corpse.
regards,
JMBarr
RedAntGungFu
redantstyle
Blue Belt
what with all the personal enmity on this subject?
Nolerama
Master Black Belt
You still don't get it. I'm saying you're operating under a very myopic point of view when it comes to the MAs.
Are you going to "lol" the entire time? Grow up, expand your mind. I'm apologize if your ego was bruised, but learn to think for yourself. I want to help you helping you think about MA in a light that's not a male ego competition.... Because buddy, when it comes to ego, you've already won.
Have fun being T3h D33dliest ;P Good luck on your journey.
If you will, could you elaborate on this Red Ant??
Is it like this?
Are you going to "lol" the entire time? Grow up, expand your mind. I'm apologize if your ego was bruised, but learn to think for yourself. I want to help you helping you think about MA in a light that's not a male ego competition.... Because buddy, when it comes to ego, you've already won.
Have fun being T3h D33dliest ;P Good luck on your journey.
If you will, could you elaborate on this Red Ant??
Is it like this?
Nolerama
Master Black Belt
TF is like Luigi to my Mario... except we really didn't get along in the first place and possibly speak/type different dialects. And we're definitely not brothers (and I'd like to think I get the Princess every time ;P)
I respect the guy, but like to argue with him as well.
redantstyle
Blue Belt
im not sure who is talking to who anymore...
am i the myoptic one?
and yes, he was nicknamed the 'Red Ant' after fire ants.
am i the myoptic one?
and yes, he was nicknamed the 'Red Ant' after fire ants.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
i think heis saying you are myopic, I am just an ***.....
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
Jarrod,
the least i could do since you asked so nice and all.
Feel free if you like to tell me where you think i got it wrong
the least i could do since you asked so nice and all.
Feel free if you like to tell me where you think i got it wrong
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I wish I could tell you it won't happen but... sadly, you are likely correct
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I think this thread has lost its way.
Regarding 10 year old BJJ black belts, I said before that I hope this never happens. Honestly, I think that, if anything, BJJ will follow Judo. Judo has pretty good quality control and the requirements for each rank are fairly consistent. I think we may see BJJ mcdojos and disreputable schools, but by and large, I don't see it completely abandoning all reason as we've seen the Lee's Strip Mall TKD phenomenon do.
I just wanted to get this out there before the thread gets sent to Gitmo.
Regarding 10 year old BJJ black belts, I said before that I hope this never happens. Honestly, I think that, if anything, BJJ will follow Judo. Judo has pretty good quality control and the requirements for each rank are fairly consistent. I think we may see BJJ mcdojos and disreputable schools, but by and large, I don't see it completely abandoning all reason as we've seen the Lee's Strip Mall TKD phenomenon do.
I just wanted to get this out there before the thread gets sent to Gitmo.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
oh lord i hope you are right Steve. If there is one thing I respect the hell out of BJJ for, it's the grading.
Steve,
I like where you were going with the whole codification thing. However, I haven't seen 2 tkd schools have the same cirriculum from one org. to another. Plus look at Judo, there are a laundry list of techniques. However, not every org teaches Judo the same.
So, MMA has set a few base things to be good at to succeed. What that means is it is up to the participant to decide how to best to that for themselves.
I like where you were going with the whole codification thing. However, I haven't seen 2 tkd schools have the same cirriculum from one org. to another. Plus look at Judo, there are a laundry list of techniques. However, not every org teaches Judo the same.
So, MMA has set a few base things to be good at to succeed. What that means is it is up to the participant to decide how to best to that for themselves.
If the definition of a martial art is that it is not a sport, than by that definition TKD, Judo, Muay Thai, Kung Fu (or at least Sanda/San Shou), Savatte, Boxing, Wrestling, Fencing , Kyokushin Karate (most karate, really) and bowling are all sports and not martial arts. I'm sure that there are more. What does that leave us?
Well, okay. Bowling isn't a sport.
Seriously. I don't get the "rules" thing. Every martial art has rules for safety. I can understand the position that MMA isn't a codified style and therefore not a Martial Art. That makes sense to me, but the rules thing... I just don't get it.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
one thing we can count on is that we will know what you think. I don't completely disagree. When (not if) "mma" formalizes more like, say, the shooto schools... That's what I'm talking about. I'm on my phone or I'd explain it better.
well i think you're on to something with your ideas about intent. but i think if you trace any art back far enough the intent was almost always militaristic/SD at it's root. i tend to look at sport as a training as a means (imho, the best means) to improve in a specialized area of self defense. for instance boxing by itself may not be the best self defense art in the world, but i don't think that anyone argues that a closed fist punch has it's place in SD. which is one tool that boxers happen to excel at.
almost every military has encouraged some form of boxing (or any sport MA for that matter) training among it's troops. now obviously boxing isn't going to win a war, but i think anyone can recognize the value of being able to knock someone senseless with your fists. same with judo & bjj; we can trace their origins back to the jujitsu of the samurai & start to view judo & bjj as arts focusing on a specialized skill set used in the battlefield. rolling around on the ground might not be your best choice in battle, but you may not have a choice.
but you have already stated that you think martial sports have SD application, so we may be just arguing semantics here.
personally speaking, i trained for SD exclusively for the first several years of my MA life. i avoided competition because i was afraid of losing, afraid of not being able to do what i thought i could do, etc. sport training gave me a lot of confidence in my training & taught me many, many valuable lessons that apply to SD. i know some guys can hit me full bore & not phase me, i know other guys can, i know the sight of my own blood doesn't freak me out, i learned how to manage my anxiety & so on. sport fighting has just been a hugely beneficial part of my martial arts life & i know it translates to self-defense.
just my thoughts,
jf
I do one night shift and you all post this lot?
Okay on the subject of whats a martial art and whats not, whats combat and whats not, I'd suggest you go to Iain Abernethy's website , there is a very good book there to download free, it's called 'Comprehensive Karate; from beginner to blackbelt.' by Micheal J Rosenbaum I can highly recommend it, has a good account of the history of karate and it may surprise many of you. Anyway, its a very good read.
Okay on the subject of whats a martial art and whats not, whats combat and whats not, I'd suggest you go to Iain Abernethy's website , there is a very good book there to download free, it's called 'Comprehensive Karate; from beginner to blackbelt.' by Micheal J Rosenbaum I can highly recommend it, has a good account of the history of karate and it may surprise many of you. Anyway, its a very good read.
