MMA vs. SD

ATC

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We have a couple of MMA students in our TKD classes and I found it funny that when we did SD (Self Defense) the other day one of them tried to get me in one of his MMA holds. I just grabbed and pressed on a nerve point and he let his hold go faster than you can say "hana" and found himself in a joint lock.

I told him sucks when you don't have rules.

That is the one thing I hate about MMA practitioners, they all seem to try to compare the sport of TKD to their sport. They do not seem to understand that no sport translates into real Self Defense.

I love watching MMA but why can't some of these people understand that MMA is not MA in the true sense. MMA is like any other sport and just a sport.

Just my .02 :asian:
 

Nolerama

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Some people "get it" some people don't. You just went up against a guy who didn't "get it" or at least chose a poor technique to pull on you. Your Vulcan nerve pinch must have been.... unnerving ;P

But blanket statements about people in other arts isn't very cool.

Keeping a closed mind can get you in a squirrly situation. There's a lot to learn from someone from another style. There's always something to learn.

So maybe instead of bragging about it, learn from it; do you know what kind of "MMA hold" he put on you? If you didn't then you're at a loss. He certainly learned something from that situation.

But then again, the Style vs Style thing is soooo overplayed. It's almost a form of penis envy; kind of like a guy with a sporty import tuner, talking smack to a American Muscle driver. You can talk circles, you can stroke your own ego, but you won't get anywhere.

By doing that is a disservice to you, your art, and your training partners.

My .02
 

Steve

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I hate when that happens!

Edit: the mma guys, what other styles of martial art do they study and do you have any idea how long they've been training?
 
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terryl965

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Remember some people get it and alot do not. I hope that you understand this and do not judge everybody because one or two people. Remember they are doing TKD because of the kicks.
 

Marginal

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We have a couple of MMA students in our TKD classes and I found it funny that when we did SD (Self Defense) the other day one of them tried to get me in one of his MMA holds. I just grabbed and pressed on a nerve point and he let his hold go faster than you can say "hana" and found himself in a joint lock.

I told him sucks when you don't have rules.
Vital point strikes/holds don't necessarily work on everyone. (At least, a lot of them don't do much to me other than producing mild discomfort, which I can easily ignore.) It's understandable that the people that aren't prone to them would tend to dismiss them. Word spreads from there, makes them seem unreliable or low percentage etc.

They just miss out on the fact that when they do work, you get big results.
 
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ATC

ATC

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No, I do get it, and I was not bragging I was just making a point. I also understand than not everyone in MMA thinks this way but many do. Just look around at many of the tkd youtube videos and read the many comments on how TKD sucks and MMA or Maui Tai is better.

The thing that I always try to point out is that sport is sport and each sport style does not compare or translate to another sport style. Also many think that MMA is real and cannot be touched. They do not see it for what it is, a sport with rules. You cannot bite, eye gouge, groin hit, small joint lock, or nerve pinch. There is a lot that you cannot do that is taught in any good self defense class.

Also it was a good learning lesson for the guy in class. He actually understood afterwards and after we talked about the differences in SD and sport. Also a lot of what is taught in MMA can also be used in SD but just remember to take the rules out and do not assume that your opponent will just tap because they cannot get out rules legal. In SD anything goes.
 

jarrod

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the thing is that there are plenty of mma practicioners who post on this board & are very respectful towards more traditional arts, or even have a base in them themselves. whereas you are not being very respectful to mma. so maybe you should discuss this on youtube since that is where there are so many people who think tkd sucks.

jf
 

Marginal

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The thing that I always try to point out is that sport is sport and each sport style does not compare or translate to another sport style. Also many think that MMA is real and cannot be touched. They do not see it for what it is, a sport with rules. You cannot bite, eye gouge, groin hit, small joint lock, or nerve pinch. There is a lot that you cannot do that is taught in any good self defense class.
It goes both ways though. Those techniques aren't always difference makers. There's one Kung fu vs wrestling video on YT where the grappler takes the KF guy down and applies an armlock. You hear one of the onlookers says, "Look out. He's going for your eye." The KF guy's arm gets snapped in short order. The fight ended right there.
 

Steve

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No, I do get it, and I was not bragging I was just making a point. I also understand than not everyone in MMA thinks this way but many do. Just look around at many of the tkd youtube videos and read the many comments on how TKD sucks and MMA or Maui Tai is better.

The thing that I always try to point out is that sport is sport and each sport style does not compare or translate to another sport style. Also many think that MMA is real and cannot be touched. They do not see it for what it is, a sport with rules. You cannot bite, eye gouge, groin hit, small joint lock, or nerve pinch. There is a lot that you cannot do that is taught in any good self defense class.

Also it was a good learning lesson for the guy in class. He actually understood afterwards and after we talked about the differences in SD and sport. Also a lot of what is taught in MMA can also be used in SD but just remember to take the rules out and do not assume that your opponent will just tap because they cannot get out rules legal. In SD anything goes.
Good lessons to learn. I think that it's a good time to let go of some easy stereotypes and move on.
 

jarrod

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It goes both ways though. Those techniques aren't always difference makers. There's one Kung fu vs wrestling video on YT where the grappler takes the KF guy down and applies an armlock. You hear one of the onlookers says, "Look out. He's going for your eye." The KF guy's arm gets snapped in short order. The fight ended right there.

*blink* but, but...he was going for his eye. tahts teh deadly!!!!!!

jf
 
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ATC

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Maybe I am not coming across correctly. I am not dissing any art but rather just trying to explain a lesson for all artists and pointing out that sport is sport and SD is SD. No matter the discipline.

I stated that I like MMA and I like sport TKD and sport Karate and so on. Just tried to give a lesson on sport vs. self defense. Maybe I did not do a good job of stating what I was trying to say.

If anyone is offended by my statements I apologize but I was not trying to disrespect any art or discipline but rather point out a few things and that is that sport in any discipline is not self defense alone.

Again I apologize is I have offended anyone.
 

jarrod

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just for future reference, i think you ruffled feathers when you said "one thing i hate about mma practioners" & also "MMA is not MA in the true sense". but i appreciate what you're saying.

jf
 
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ATC

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just for future reference, i think you ruffled feathers when you said "one thing i hate about mma practioners" & also "MMA is not MA in the true sense". but i appreciate what you're saying.

jf
Yes, I should have phrased that better. MMA as a sport and it may be more of MMA fans that do not practice anything that make most of the statements that I hate, once I take the time to think about it.

However MMA as it is stated is a mixture of other martial arts so I am not sure that MMA is a true martial art but rather a term to describe multiple arts used by one. If I am wrong then I am educated.

Thanks you.
 

jarrod

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i know what you mean about mma not being a martial art in & of itself. that's the opinion i originally held, but if you think about it, many MA developed as a mixture of existing styles. with that in mind i think mma is headed down the course of being it's own style, if it already isn't.

jf
 

Tez3

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the thing is that there are plenty of mma practicioners who post on this board & are very respectful towards more traditional arts, or even have a base in them themselves. whereas you are not being very respectful to mma. so maybe you should discuss this on youtube since that is where there are so many people who think tkd sucks.

jf


Jarrod nicely put!
The title of the thread is provocative, it would be whatever MA V MA you put.
ATC, you managed to get most of the fallacies about MMA into one post, congratulations. After the others had posted though you managed to back pedal quite well. ( Bet you were all just waiting till I got up and read this weren't ya lol)
How rude was it of you, an instructor, to demonstrate a move on a student and when he's obviously seen the point of it, you say 'it sucks when you don't have rules'. Your mindset from the off was that these people also do MMA so gosh I'm going to show them a thing or two now. then you go on to generalise about all MMA practioners, well thanks for that. Yes, we all go around comparing TKD to MMA, we do it all the time....not!
Firstly, there are idiots in all sports and all walks of life, none of us is responsible for them but to generalise the way you did is extremely unfair.

MMA is a sport, how many times have I posted that up now? Yes of course it is and with rules. Most of us do understand that and we train for our sport but we also train for SD and believe me we can do the 'real' SD just as well as everyone else and no the rules of MMA don't get in the way of SD because, guess what, we can switch from one to another quite easily. To give a lesson on sport v SD is pointless and patronising. Do you think the sports TKD people who spar with hands down don't know the difference between that and SD? Do you think wrestlers and grapplers don't know they have to be able to punch it out sometimes or use other methods on the street? That rugby and football players don't know they can't just do rugby and footie tackle on people when they start punching? But you choose to give such a lesson to the MMA guys because you assume well they are MMA, thickies, they only know how to do a sport so I'll show them how to do the real thing. Arrogant?

It's naive to post up up saying on 'I just wanted people to see the difference between SD and sport', of all the places in the world this is the one place I'd put my money on people knowing that! A trip through the past threads and posts would have saved you the effort of this post and my having to splutter through my breakfast answering it.

I'm trying to decide whether to continue about MMA being a style but I think I will not.
 

Tez3

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Oh and if they are in your class they are TKD students not MMA students.
 

Steve

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i know what you mean about mma not being a martial art in & of itself. that's the opinion i originally held, but if you think about it, many MA developed as a mixture of existing styles. with that in mind i think mma is headed down the course of being it's own style, if it already isn't.

jf
I've said this repeatedly myself on these boards, so it goes without saying that I agree completely. As more schools teach a synthesis of various arts in MMA schools, the style will become better defined. I don't know if it's good or bad, but I think it's inevitable.

As for the rest, I think Tez managed to drop the hammer pretty hard. No harm done, and I hope you stick around. This is a great place. You just had the misfortune of touching a raw nerve very early. :D
 

Tez3

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I've said this repeatedly myself on these boards, so it goes without saying that I agree completely. As more schools teach a synthesis of various arts in MMA schools, the style will become better defined. I don't know if it's good or bad, but I think it's inevitable.

As for the rest, I think Tez managed to drop the hammer pretty hard. No harm done, and I hope you stick around. This is a great place. You just had the misfortune of touching a raw nerve very early. :D


True, please do stick around, I only get grumpy when MMA is treated unfairly lol. :ultracool
 

Daniel Sullivan

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We have a couple of MMA students in our TKD classes and I found it funny that when we did SD (Self Defense) the other day one of them tried to get me in one of his MMA holds. I just grabbed and pressed on a nerve point and he let his hold go faster than you can say "hana" and found himself in a joint lock.

I told him sucks when you don't have rules.

No sport, be it MMA, TKD, kickboxing, boxing, or wrestling, equates directly to self defense. The primary difference is that in a competition, one seeks to dominate and win over an opponent, while in self defense, on seeks to end the conflict quickly and escape.

That is the one thing I hate about MMA practitioners, they all seem to try to compare the sport of TKD to their sport. They do not seem to understand that no sport translates into real Self Defense.
I love watching MMA but why can't some of these people understand that MMA is not MA in the true sense. MMA is like any other sport and just a sport.

Just my .02 :asian:
I think that there is an extent to which a lot of people compare their art or style to others. But each art has its strengths and weaknesses, and some are more easily adapted to competition than others.

There's always an element of 'fanboy' in anything. An art or style should not be judged by the fanboys (you know, the guys who get into lengthy arguements about whether or not Wolverine could beat Spiderman).

Daniel
 
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