MMA=Kickboxing and Wrestling? aka the demise of BJJ

[DavidCC]

Maybe the whole 'style' thing is outdated. Everyone knows everything now, but individuals will always use their individual strengths against their opponnent's area of relative weakness. Ex: a G n P guy takes down a striker, a striker refuses to go to the ground against a BJJ expert, a BJJ expert looking to feign a striking attack in order to get close enough to clinch, etc...

Renzo Gracie said, "The most important, and least practiced part of a fight, is the takedown."

I always think it is a victory for the sport of wrestling when a big name wrestler wins, such as Randy Couture, Matt Lindland, Matt Hughes, etc...

But really MMA is one complete entity, maybe style is outdated.

There are no styles in the world of pro boxing. How could MMA be far behind as the skillset is honed and pruned more and more by the ruleset?

 

[Tez3]

There are no styles in the world of pro boxing. How could MMA be far behind as the skillset is honed and pruned more and more by the ruleset?

Sorry I don't understand what that means.

 

[DavidCC]

What I mean is over time you will see less emphasis on styles in professional MMA to the point where it is a style or system itself the same way "boxing" is now.

Honed and pruned - as the pros concentrate more and more on success in the ring as the only criteria, techniques that aren't effective because of their nature or the rules will be dropped until there is a small set of techniques that everyone trains... just like boxing.

 

[Tez3]

What I mean is over time you will see less emphasis on styles in professional MMA to the point where it is a style or system itself the same way "boxing" is now.

Honed and pruned - as the pros concentrate more and more on success in the ring as the only criteria, techniques that aren't effective because of their nature or the rules will be dropped until there is a small set of techniques that everyone trains... just like boxing.

We already see people training in MMA as opposed to different styles. Most us who train are constantly looking for moves that will work, I don't think it will end up like boxing, I think MMA fighters are more inventive than that. Having said that I already think the UFC is far blander than any other show I see.

 

[zDom]

We already see people training in MMA as opposed to different styles. Most us who train are constantly looking for moves that will work, I don't think it will end up like boxing, I think MMA fighters are more inventive than that. Having said that I already think the UFC is far blander than any other show I see.

More "inventive." Hehehe.

LOOK! I just found something that WORKS! Proven effective — I have video to prove it! It keeps me warm and can make raw food more tasty!

I think I'll call it Burny Stuff and start a new school to teach people how to make it!




I think Solomon said it best somewhere around Ecclesiastes 1:9-14

"There is nothng new under the sun."

 

[Tez3]

More "inventive." Hehehe.

LOOK! I just found something that WORKS! Proven effective — I have video to prove it! It keeps me warm and can make raw food more tasty!

I think I'll call it Burny Stuff and start a new school to teach people how to make it!




I think Solomon said it best somewhere around Ecclesiastes 1:9-14

"There is nothng new under the sun."

Well I'm sure I have some moves that will be new to you (and I daresay vice versa)! do you train MMA? fight MMA? teach MMA? or do you just train sarcasm and cliches?
Video? oh no sunbeam, a tap out from my opponent means it works.
Nothing new under the sun? perhaps but then no one person knows it all, when there's nothing more to learn one might as well be dead.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Well I'm sure I have some moves that will be new to you (and I daresay vice versa)! do you train MMA? fight MMA? teach MMA? or do you just train sarcasm and cliches?
Video? oh no sunbeam, a tap out from my opponent means it works.
Nothing new under the sun? perhaps but then no one person knows it all, when there's nothing more to learn one might as well be dead.

I think what he means is something like this:

If you can show me a "new" move I'll show you a book or video that predates the time you say you came up with the "new" move. I agree. Everytime someone has claimed a "new" move or movement I've been able to go through my video archive and book collection to show them documentation of that "new" move from WAAAAAAAYYYYYY back. I think people will continue to rediscover what has already been discovered. Nevermind the minor fact that not all discoveries are documented. that increases the liekelihood of a "new" move being old.

 

[Tez3]

But of course if I don't know the move it's new to me isn't it? And MMA fighters are inventive enough to go looking for moves that are new to them rather than rely on certain well worn moves that everyone knows. They look for angles to the mundane and new ways to use the old. Everyone does things slightly differently, how many ways do you know to put a straight arm bar on? I learned a new way ( for me) the other week, likewise with ways of getting out of things. How many ways to do a RNC? there is always something new to learn even if it's not 'new under the sun'. We work at finding out things for ourselves what works, what doesn't for ourselves.

 

[zDom]

I think what he means is something like this:

If you can show me a "new" move I'll show you a book or video that predates the time you say you came up with the "new" move. I agree. Everytime someone has claimed a "new" move or movement I've been able to go through my video archive and book collection to show them documentation of that "new" move from WAAAAAAAYYYYYY back. I think people will continue to rediscover what has already been discovered. Nevermind the minor fact that not all discoveries are documented. that increases the liekelihood of a "new" move being old.

You are reading me 5 by 5 (loud and clear), Kenpojujitsu3

Tez3, please excuse my ironic tone — I'm not trying to piss you off. For what its worth, you are among the MMA practitioners that I find reasonable and respect.

I just find it amusing when someone (anyone, not just a MMA practitioner) stumbles across something (anything, not just a martial art or training technique) that has been around for 40 to 4,000 years and decide they invented it and begin patting themselves on the back.

 

[zDom]

But of course if I don't know the move it's new to me isn't it? And MMA fighters are inventive enough to go looking for moves that are new to them rather than rely on certain well worn moves that everyone knows. They look for angles to the mundane and new ways to use the old. Everyone does things slightly differently, how many ways do you know to put a straight arm bar on? I learned a new way ( for me) the other week, likewise with ways of getting out of things. How many ways to do a RNC? there is always something new to learn even if it's not 'new under the sun'. We work at finding out things for ourselves what works, what doesn't for ourselves.

At the risk of being called back on the carpet for using cliches, I just don't see the need to go reinventing the wheel when, with a little research, you can find all sorts of wheels for all sorts of uses.

Saves time and effort — time and effort that can be used to build those wheels instead of reinventing them.

I agree there is plenty to learn — more than we have time to learn. So why not use that knowledge of the past so you have more time to dedicate to figuring out what works for ourselves and what doesn't?

Maybe as a writer I am just a little more sensitive to the whole concept of plagarism — taking credit for something that has already been done before.

 

[Andrew Green]

I just find it amusing when someone (anyone, not just a MMA practitioner) stumbles across something (anything, not just a martial art or training technique) that has been around for 40 to 4,000 years and decide they invented it and begin patting themselves on the back.

I'll admit that every technique or strategy I have ever "invented" I have latter discovered someone else also invented it, usually a few people. But that doesn't change the process, which is what this is all about anyways.

When someone invents a technique that works well for them they should be proud of themselves. That takes creativity and understanding of what is going on, it doesn't matter that its been done before, they still invented it.

And that "Eureka" moment when suddenly something clicks and you pull a move out of no where that works is something everyone should experience.

 

[Tez3]

If my post is read correctly you will find I said MMA fighters are more inventive than being content to use the same moves over and over again as was implied in the post I was answering. I didn't claim that they invented moves that have been around for years. What they do is actively seek out moves they can work with.

 

[zDom]

If my post is read correctly you will find I said MMA fighters are more inventive than being content to use the same moves over and over again as was implied in the post I was answering. I didn't claim that they invented moves that have been around for years. What they do is actively seek out moves they can work with.

And that is an attitude I can respect.

What I have been getting from OTHER MMA enthusiasts is quite the opposite.

I suggested, for example, that the ridgehand technique might be something they might find very useful "in the ring."

The response was, "Well, it doesn't work or they would already be using it by now ..."

And to answer an early question:

do you train MMA? fight MMA? teach MMA? or do you just train sarcasm and cliches?

Depends on how strict of a definition. In my opinion, hapkido is one of — if not THE first — fighting system to embrace the idea of mixing martial art systems.

So, to answer the question: YES I train mixed martial arts, I have successfully defending myself from real attacks using a mixture of martial arts and yes I teach, when asked to do so by my instructor.

The sarcasm and cliches come naturally — no training needed

 

[LegLockGuy]

Gonzaga > Couture

So NO, BJJ is not dead.

 

[Tez3]

I'm not in the least pissed off, I'm jyst very armentative lol! I like sarcasm, I'm British!
I wish you guys had DVD players that worked with our DVD's I'd send you all DVDs of British fight nights to show you what I mean!

 

[zDom]

I'm not in the least pissed off, I'm jyst very armentative lol! I like sarcasm, I'm British!
I wish you guys had DVD players that worked with our DVD's I'd send you all DVDs of British fight nights to show you what I mean!

I would love to see them

Our DVDs aren't compatible?? Really?

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I would love to see them

Our DVDs aren't compatible?? Really?

Different regional coding so the DVD's wouldn't play...unless you know how to break the region coding...which I do...there are several softwares available to do this.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I'll admit that every technique or strategy I have ever "invented" I have latter discovered someone else also invented it, usually a few people. But that doesn't change the process, which is what this is all about anyways.

When someone invents a technique that works well for them they should be proud of themselves. That takes creativity and understanding of what is going on, it doesn't matter that its been done before, they still invented it.

And that "Eureka" moment when suddenly something clicks and you pull a move out of no where that works is something everyone should experience.

It's really just semantics but I am strictly oppossed to people claiming they invented something that has already been invented. However, by the strict dictionary definition yes they invented it....just did not invent it first. Good post.

 

[Shogun]

wow. if some people's idea of BJJ is just submissions....find a new school.

I used to dwell on the idea of "new" a little less than 3 years ago, but I've gotten to the point to where "If I haven't seen it, its new to me".