Mitose Forms

[Karazenpo]

Hello,

Actually the Kata KUSANKU is the Okinawan pronounciation of the Chinese emissary of the Ming dynasty's name.
The names KOSOKUN or KOSHOKUN were used in Japan mainland. Funakoshi changed the name to KWANKU and later to KANKU (dai,sho). You have to have the Kanji to compare to Kosho-ryu (Ko-Matsu ryu). Sho / Matsu mean pine (tree), Ko means old. Kanji(s) might sound the same but not necessarily mean the same.

Respectfully,

Correct, Brother Peter. I agree. However, I think the inference is that if the final research proves there was no 'family system' of Kosho ryu and I'm not going to say one way or the other until all the facts are in, then perhaps Mitose borrowed the name from his training in Okinawan Kempo. In other words he credits Motobu with being an instructor of his and history of the Okinawan arts would have shown Kusanku or 'Kosho'kan as being an ancient ancestor of this lineage. Did he (Mitose) take this history of Okinawan Kempo and create his own history in Kosho ryu? Recall that Mitose stated that his family art was originally founded by an ancient ancester of his named 'Kosho'. As of this post it appears to me that the Okinawan connection should be coming out soon as fact if A&E is successful in their investigation. If so, we will then have to wait to see what Shihan Mike Brown has uncovered in Japan as far as a Japanese connection goes. I think we should wait until all the facts are in before we draw a positive conclusion to this enigma and I remain open-minded to this part of the Mitose story. However, as far as Mitose's criminal background goes, my mind is closed and the jury has long been in and I don't understand how anyone can dispute the facts of this man's other side and for any detractors to what I just stated, yes, I researched the transcripts, probation records and everything I could get my hands on. For the record, in my correspondence with Shihan Brown he has never defended Mitose's criminal actions but others I have spoken to have! I just don't get it.

 

[kenmpoka]

Correct, Brother Peter. I agree. However, I think the inference is that if the final research proves there was no 'family system' of Kosho ryu and I'm not going to say one way or the other until all the facts are in, then perhaps Mitose borrowed the name from his training in Okinawan Kempo. In other words he credits Motobu with being an instructor of his and history of the Okinawan arts would have shown Kusanku or 'Kosho'kan as being an ancient ancestor of this lineage. Did he (Mitose) take this history of Okinawan Kempo and create his own history in Kosho ryu? Recall that Mitose stated that his family art was originally founded by an ancient ancester of his named 'Kosho'. As of this post it appears to me that the Okinawan connection should be coming out soon as fact if A&E is successful in their investigation. If so, we will then have to wait to see what Shihan Mike Brown has uncovered in Japan as far as a Japanese connection goes. I think we should wait until all the facts are in before we draw a positive conclusion to this enigma and I remain open-minded to this part of the Mitose story. However, as far as Mitose's criminal background goes, my mind is closed and the jury has long been in and I don't understand how anyone can dispute the facts of this man's other side and for any detractors to what I just stated, yes, I researched the transcripts, probation records and everything I could get my hands on. For the record, in my correspondence with Shihan Brown he has never defended Mitose's criminal actions but others I have spoken to have! I just don't get it.

Hey Joe,

I was just trying to clarify the origin and pronounciation of KUSANKU. I don't much care about the subject of Mitose, Chow, and all the rest of the high and mighty GMs. Btw, the inference to Motobu in Mitose's book was only as a Kenpo Master. I think everybody else made Motobu his teacher!!!

How are you anyway?

Peter.

 

[Karazenpo]

Hey Joe,

I was just trying to clarify the origin and pronounciation of KUSANKU. I don't much care about the subject of Mitose, Chow, and all the rest of the high and mighty GMs. Btw, the inference to Motobu in Mitose's book was only as a Kenpo Master. I think everybody else made Motobu his teacher!!!

How are you anyway?

Peter.

Hi Peter, things are getting better but I had a stressful several weeks. My mother had to go in for surgery but she's back home now and everything seems to be going fine. I had to take time off from the cop job and teaching, just starting to get things going again. Thanks for asking. I can't remember right now where I referenced it but Mitose has been quoted as saying to people (not in his book) that Motobu was his instructor. If anyone remembers this please post the reference. I first got into the history just to have the right questions when the students ask instead of passing on myths and so forth. Then, to be honest, it also started to arouse my curiosity. However, I still like to have the right answers or at least as close to the truth as possible when asked and many students are asking questions, not to mention many have been misled and they don't even have a clue! I know you feel the same way too. Take care, Joe

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi Peter, things are getting better but I had a stressful several weeks. My mother had to go in for surgery but she's back home now and everything seems to be going fine. I had to take time off from the cop job and teaching, just starting to get things going again. Thanks for asking. I can't remember right now where I referenced it but Mitose has been quoted as saying to people (not in his book) that Motobu was his instructor. If anyone remembers this please post the reference. I first got into the history just to have the right questions when the students ask instead of passing on myths and so forth. Then, to be honest, it also started to arouse my curiosity. However, I still like to have the right answers or at least as close to the truth as possible when asked and many students are asking questions, not to mention many have been misled and they don't even have a clue! I know you feel the same way too. Take care, Joe

To answer my own question as to the origin of the Mitose/Motobu connection I found it in my documents. The late historian Richard Kim had told Sigung John Bishop that Mitose, himself, had stated that Motobu was his instructor.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

ummm...........did you ever think that people may lie to suit their own ends?

everyone claims mitose was a liar..........but funny how everyone that KNEW him HAS to be telling the truth.

Naihan No Kata

 

[DoxN4cer]

This particular thread has been very informative in terms of the history and devlopment of kenpo in the US. I want to thank everyone for sharing so much here. I have a new and better understanding of the subject now.

Tim Kashino

 

[GAB]

Hi Everyone: Just to throw this in, in the line of Emperors of Japan, Number 5 is listed as Kosho. Just a tidbit to discuss. Regards, Gary

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i think the problem lies in the fact that people just tend to read the english translation of something and pay no mind to the kanji where the translation came from....
古 (ko) - meaning old and 松(sho or matsu) - meaning pine tree. 古 松 流 拳 法

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