Martial Arts Extinction

[puunui]

So you have attributed a Japanese usage to a (Chinese) term without even knowing the characters used to write it, stating as a fact that "here, the term means", when there was really no evidence at all. The implication was that the term "shishi" could only have the one interpretation, which is a blanket statement as regards to the word, which you were giving a Japanese reference.

Sorry, incorrect.

As regards your point, you seemed to be wanting to belittle the system that Alex was claiming,

Wrong again.

but your method was flawed from the outset on a range of points. That was my point. Maybe you missed it.

From my perspective, the point of your post seem to be opportunities to showcase your google and you tube search skills, which I have to say is pretty good. Better than me. Take this particular situation, there was a phrase discussed "shishi" which you probably hadn't heard before and instead of saying "i didn't know that" and moving on like most people, you did a google search on it, and then proceeded to write a post based on that.

 

[puunui]

As I said...shishi (pinyin - xixi) is used in Beijing Mandarin meaning potty...meaning said to small childern

Where is the Bathroom in Mandarin = Xi shou jian zai nar

Ergo for a small child it has become XiXi (sheeshee)

Thanks for your response. My wife didn't grow up in hawaii, so we were trying to figure out why her mother used the term with her as well. Her grandparents spoke mandarin (don't know which dialect) so your post explains it. Thanks again.

 

[Chris Parker]

Sorry, incorrect.

Wrong again.

From my perspective, the point of your post seem to be opportunities to showcase your google and you tube search skills, which I have to say is pretty good. Better than me. Take this particular situation, there was a phrase discussed "shishi" which you probably hadn't heard before and instead of saying "i didn't know that" and moving on like most people, you did a google search on it, and then proceeded to write a post based on that.

Sorry, incorrect. Wrong again, Glenn. There was no google involved, and you really don't get what my reference material is...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks for your response. My wife didn't grow up in hawaii, so we were trying to figure out why her mother used the term with her as well. Her grandparents spoke mandarin (don't know which dialect) so your post explains it. Thanks again.

Mandarin is the dialect I just know it is used by Beijingren (people who are from Beijing where they speak Mandarin)

 

[puunui]

There was no google involved, and you really don't get what my reference material is...

Is that where you really want to go, comparing reference materials? And actually, I do. We all do. It's not some big secret. You cite to a lot of webpages and youtube videos in your posts.

 

[puunui]

Mandarin is the dialect I just know it is used by Beijingren (people who are from Beijing where they speak Mandarin)

I think learning the chinese language is much harder than korean or japanese because there are so many dialects. korean and japanese tend to be similar in that they are quite monotone, especially when compared to chinese, where pitch (I don't know if that is the correct word) or even emphasis on syllables can change meanings.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think learning the chinese language is much harder than korean or japanese because there are so many dialects. korean and japanese tend to be similar in that they are quite monotone, especially when compared to chinese, where pitch (I don't know if that is the correct word) or even emphasis on syllables can change meanings.

Basically yhou pick a dailect and go with it and if someone is trying to decide which one to learn I always say Mandarin since just about anyone 60 years or less speaks it and you are only concerned with 4 tones.

Cantonese is also popular but spoken mostly in South China (Hong Kong and Guangzhou) and in most (not all) of the Chinatowns in the USA and there are 6 tones

The other 5, if you look at traditional classifications, are not as wide spread

I tried to learn Mandarin and Cantonese at the same time many years ago and when I was done I was so confused I could speak neither of them. Now I ONLY work on Mandarin

 

[Langenschwert]

With the Kage Ryu, there are really only a handful of aging members left, with little interest in the younger generation in continuing the art, which I feel is what Paul was talking about. There have been seminars on the system (in Canada, at least), but not much more. Honestly, I agree with Paul that the system is in danger of dying out, but, like you, I remain hopeful that it will manage to continue.

Hi Chris,

This information was true at one point, but is thankfully out of date.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[Chris Parker]

Is that where you really want to go, comparing reference materials? And actually, I do. We all do. It's not some big secret. You cite to a lot of webpages and youtube videos in your posts.

Being able to find websites and clips that back up what I'm saying doesn't mean that that's where I got the information from in the first place, Glenn. It just shows that there is backup for what I'm saying. Most of my information and understanding comes from experience, outside reading, conversing with practitioners of a range of systems, and so on, with "google/you-tube" playing a backup role at best. A lot of that conversation with practitioners takes place privately and personally, but sometimes it happens publicly, and everyone gets to see it. Case in point:

Hi Chris,

This information was true at one point, but is thankfully out of date.

Best regards,

-Mark

Thanks, Mark! Great to hear! I take it this means that there are some newer-generation students coming through, rather than meaning the new branch established a number of years ago, yeah?

Oh, and just as an aside, Glenn, you recently told pgsmith that you feel that what he does is more difficult that your systems, due to it's attention to detail... you do realise that (different system) I do the same thing, along with a number of other systems, yeah? Again, my information taken from google and you-tube is distinctly in the minority, with experience being a much larger part of it all. With the idea of alternate readings for "Shishi" from a Japanese perspective, the information I was referring to isn't really found online anywhere... but it comes from the kata names from a couple of the systems I study.

 

[puunui]

Being able to find websites and clips that back up what I'm saying doesn't mean that that's where I got the information from in the first place, Glenn. It just shows that there is backup for what I'm saying. Most of my information and understanding comes from experience, outside reading, conversing with practitioners of a range of systems, and so on, with "google/you-tube" playing a backup role at best. A lot of that conversation with practitioners takes place privately and personally, but sometimes it happens publicly, and everyone gets to see it

If you say so.

 

[puunui]

Oh, and just as an aside, Glenn, you recently told pgsmith that you feel that what he does is more difficult that your systems, due to it's attention to detail... you do realise that (different system) I do the same thing, along with a number of other systems, yeah? Again, my information taken from google and you-tube is distinctly in the minority, with experience being a much larger part of it all. With the idea of alternate readings for "Shishi" from a Japanese perspective, the information I was referring to isn't really found online anywhere... but it comes from the kata names from a couple of the systems I study.

Again, if you say so. Excuse me if you reading your posts gives me a different perspective and opinion on what you are doing.

 

[Chris Parker]

Fine, if you want to play that way, can you find, using Google, where the following techniques are, and what the translations are?

Shishi Geki
Shishi Tsuke
Shishi Kudaki
Shishi Gaeshi.

Two different systems, one section of one, two sections of another.

Off you go.

 

[puunui]

Forgive me again, but I am just not that interested in playing your games.

 

[Instructor]

Any guesses why Tae Kwon Do gained such a large following? It's one of the few martial arts you can find almost anywhere in the U.S.

 

[puunui]

Any guesses why Tae Kwon Do gained such a large following? It's one of the few martial arts you can find almost anywhere in the U.S.

Sure. Thousands of motivated instructors came from Korea, who taught American students who went on to open their own schools. Taekwondo is large because there were more instructors for that than any other style, ever.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Can you think of an example of where it has been tried (resurrection)? How did it fall short of the mark and conversely did something good come out of it?

None: you cannot resurrect the style without living practitioners and an unbroken line. You can, however, re-construct a style. A number of European sword styles have been reconstructed via training manuals and pertinent material of the period that is still extant. While I do believe that there is merit in legitimately recontructing a style (as opposed to simply appropriating the name and applying it to something else), you still have a reconstructed style, not the original style. Reading training manuals means that you are interpreting static pictures on a page and inferring the motions that link them or are interpreting a technical description in text form only. Or both.

Take a look at the Kukkiwon textbook; it is as technically detailed as is humanly possible and you still would be unable to learn many of the subtleties of the art. If you look at the captioned pictures, you see a form one way. If you watch a video of the same form, it is seen in a different way. Neither is the same as being taught the form by a knowledgeable instructor. Since neither video nor knowledgeable instructors for lost arts exist, the reconstructed art is, by necessity, a different art.

That doesn't mean that it is bad or without merit; it simply is a new style at that point.

 

[Chris Parker]

Forgive me again, but I am just not that interested in playing your games.

So you made an accusation, and when challenged, refuse to back it up? Nice. Maybe you should remember this next time you suggest such things, Glenn.

None: you cannot resurrect the style without living practitioners and an unbroken line.

It's been claimed, though, Daniel... just so you know. The success is another question, but resurrecting a system with no real method of reconstruction has been done....

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It's been claimed, though, Daniel... just so you know. The success is another question, but resurrecting a system with no real method of reconstruction has been done....

Not sure who claimed it, and if they do claim it, then fine; that is between them and their members. But if there are no living practitioners, then the best you have is either reconstruction or appropriating the name to apply to something new.

 

[Chris Parker]

Ha, I'm not arguing with your assessment, just saying it's happened... one example would be Tanemura of the Genbukan, who at one point was teaching Hakuun Ryu Ninjutsu... which died out centuries ago with no continuation. Some of the schools that claim to come from it exist, but not the system itself. He no longer claims it, by the way....

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Ha, I'm not arguing with your assessment, just saying it's happened...

I didn't think that you were; that was for the benefit of other readers.

one example would be Tanemura of the Genbukan, who at one point was teaching Hakuun Ryu Ninjutsu... which died out centuries ago with no continuation. Some of the schools that claim to come from it exist, but not the system itself. He no longer claims it, by the way....

What was his basis for the claim? I know that reconstructed European sword systems are reconstructed with extant manuscripts and training manuals. Did he have any of these or did he read up on them and say, 'hey, that's what we do'?