47MartialMan
Master of Arts
Sorry, although I very much like your post, my students are not consumers/customers.
Nice post though
Nice post though
Adept
Master Black Belt
How other people percieve my training is none of my concern. Increased promotion of the martial arts (promotion, not publicity, they are different things) would (hopefully) generate a larger base of students, which would make it easier to find good training partners. How Martial Arts become percieved by people in the non-training public is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.Eldritch Knight said:
OP
jjmcc
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #23
I totally understand your point on this and its good to hear of an instructor with more commitment and respect for their students.
What really gets to me though is when i pick up the paper each and every day and we read about sexual assault and abduction and i think to myself a wee bit knowledge could so easily save lives not everyone but even if it could save one life id be a happy man
What really gets to me though is when i pick up the paper each and every day and we read about sexual assault and abduction and i think to myself a wee bit knowledge could so easily save lives not everyone but even if it could save one life id be a happy man
47MartialMan said:Sorry, although I very much like your post, my students are not consumers/customers.
Nice post though
I hate to think of students in this way too. Students are not merely a means to an end. I love to teach martial arts but there is definitely a business side to doing so. However, we also need to understand that when someone chooses a martial art they do it for a reason. There are a number of noble reasons, self-defense, tradition, as well as completely consumer/customer driven ones: exercise/physical fitness. Look at the number of threads on how much lessons should cost and starting costs for various martial arts, testing fees, equipment, etc.
We all laugh at the ads in the MA literature about how people can become killing machines instantly, over night, with little to no training. These ads are ridiculous; they make claims that can't be backed up, claim lineage (military or martial art) that can't be verified, and have little basis in reality. If all this is true, how can they afford to keep advertising? The money is getting into their pockets. Why? No long training time, and it's cheap compared to a commercial school or club. $200 for a system that I can use to defend myself instantly, looks a lot better than going to the dojang 3 times a week and paying $35(for a small club)-$125(big commercial beast) a month plus testing fees plus uniforms plus sparring gear plus travel to the dojang plus being bad mouthed for picking an art that doesn't work on the street or an art that is too sport oriented or too traditional or too impractical, etc etc on and on and on. How do we combat that type of flashy instant result advertising? We laugh and say there's no way that stuff works and people are idiots for trying it.
If someone takes TKD(not to pick on TKD, pick any art) for exercise, there are other ways for that person to exercise: aerobics classes, weightlifting,yoga. The person will have to make an assessment about cost and benefit. Why do some MA schools offer cardio kickboxing? To bring some more people in the door. Some of those people end up signing up for regular classes.
If you have had your own school or club, how many people start and then quit? This can be for a number of reasons: lack of money, personal issues. How many people have quit and then taken another art because your art just wasn't quite right for them? These people are shopping around. We as instructors/school owners will sometimes have to "sell" the art. I don't like to do this and selling is sometimes the worst part of the business side of things. But to keep the doors open, someone will have to pay. We can always minimize these costs, there are alternatives to commercial schools. In the end though, there is usually an exchange of money for services. Some people teach for free and that is great. Nothing wrong with that. Some instructors don't seek out new students, they have a small group that they train with and charge very little. Again, that's great. There are different goals and approaches out there. In the end the goal is the same, passing my MA knowledge to a student, who can then progress to teach another.
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
jkn75,
Nice post. very nice indeed.
I am not knocking commercial schools. I am not knocking the need to "sell" themselves or school. Hey, one must do what is needed to keep the doors open. However, I knock the excessive commercialism. The "wow's" like this is "better than that". "We have this over that". The excessvie levels of rank to gain more fees for more profit.
I knock the giving up moral teaching obligations set aside for monetary gain. Such as I knew one school that if the student was two weeks late on payment, they would be suspended for two months. Or students whom have a low GPA, be suspended as well. (Personally, I do not think a Instructor should use themselves or the school as a bartering tool just to impress a parent. Thus, become a infringement on the family's personal lifestyle. Let the parent deal with the decision on what method towards a low GPA.)
To me, a student with a low GPA, is in need of more martial art discipline. I have many low GPA, low income, under-privilage students. These students would not be in any martial art that is commercially opened with strict business minded guidelines. To me, these are the students whom NEED it MORE (not shouting-emphasizing).
So, a school opened for business or commercial venues are ok. I dont have to rely on such income and thus those without means can still learn
Nice post. very nice indeed.
I am not knocking commercial schools. I am not knocking the need to "sell" themselves or school. Hey, one must do what is needed to keep the doors open. However, I knock the excessive commercialism. The "wow's" like this is "better than that". "We have this over that". The excessvie levels of rank to gain more fees for more profit.
I knock the giving up moral teaching obligations set aside for monetary gain. Such as I knew one school that if the student was two weeks late on payment, they would be suspended for two months. Or students whom have a low GPA, be suspended as well. (Personally, I do not think a Instructor should use themselves or the school as a bartering tool just to impress a parent. Thus, become a infringement on the family's personal lifestyle. Let the parent deal with the decision on what method towards a low GPA.)
To me, a student with a low GPA, is in need of more martial art discipline. I have many low GPA, low income, under-privilage students. These students would not be in any martial art that is commercially opened with strict business minded guidelines. To me, these are the students whom NEED it MORE (not shouting-emphasizing).
So, a school opened for business or commercial venues are ok. I dont have to rely on such income and thus those without means can still learn
47MartialMan said:jkn75,
I knock the giving up moral teaching obligations set aside for monetary gain. Such as I knew one school that if the student was two weeks late on payment, they would be suspended for two months. Or students whom have a low GPA, be suspended as well. (Personally, I do not think a Instructor should use themselves or the school as a bartering tool just to impress a parent. Thus, become a infringement on the family's personal lifestyle. Let the parent deal with the decision on what method towards a low GPA.)
To me, a student with a low GPA, is in need of more martial art discipline. I have many low GPA, low income, under-privilage students. These students would not be in any martial art that is commercially opened with strict business minded guidelines. To me, these are the students whom NEED it MORE (not shouting-emphasizing).
So, a school opened for business or commercial venues are ok. I dont have to rely on such income and thus those without means can still learn
Well said and I completely agree.
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
I wonder if there was a discusion in a thread about martial art schools and the student's GPA?
I don't feel that MA really needs publicity for the sake of generating students per se. Those who want MA training will seek it out. I think the general population could use a reality check when it comes to martial arts. I refrain from mentioning my MA background to people because I am bombarded with ridiculous questions "can you fight 20 guys all at once?". Like many have said here MA has become an item of novelty (at least in the US). In a very broad and general sense you there seems to be 2 general consensuses at extreme opposites: MA is either a bunch of hooey or after 3 classes you are a world class fighter. I have come to realize that many people who see MA from the outside don't realize that MA is a way of life to most who practice, whether it is for SD purposes or for the sake of the art itself.
This is just my opinion drawn from my personal experiences
-Josh
This is just my opinion drawn from my personal experiences
-Josh
Publicity at what cost, remember when advertising starts the quality goes down in most cases. It becomes I'm better than so and so school because we are here and they are over in that other nieghborhood. Us old guy remember when there was no air condition and we worked out for hours.Now days if your not in a stripe mall or the best side of town your consided no good. Boxer train hard and under some pretty dingy places and so daes MA for the most part until publicity, the way they want people to look at them is I'm over here with the wealthy but who really joins there the money hungry non work out types nomally. I'm not saying all schools are like this but I've seen school that does not let there student sweet for the sole sake that they do not want to hurt there feelings.
Publicity should be about how hard training is and the acconpliments you get out of the hard training. how this will stay with you for a lifetime and not the flavor of the month. Sorry I got on a soap box.
Publicity should be about how hard training is and the acconpliments you get out of the hard training. how this will stay with you for a lifetime and not the flavor of the month. Sorry I got on a soap box.
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
Publicity should be about how hard training is and the acconpliments you get out of the hard training. how this will stay with you for a lifetime and not the flavor of the month. Sorry I got on a soap box.How truw....styles and desires change according to fads
OP
jjmcc
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #31
[QUOTE=jjmcc]Sorry maybe i should word it better SELFDEFENCE should be more readely available to the public how do you feel about this point[/QUOTE]
Yes i agree that MA maybe doesnt need more publicity im sorry i worded this question wrong what i feel is that general SELF DEFENCE should be more readily available to a much wider community and should have much more publication even certain techniques taught in school and colleges to children and teenagers HOW DOES THIS STRIKE EVERYONE....
Yes i agree that MA maybe doesnt need more publicity im sorry i worded this question wrong what i feel is that general SELF DEFENCE should be more readily available to a much wider community and should have much more publication even certain techniques taught in school and colleges to children and teenagers HOW DOES THIS STRIKE EVERYONE....
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
Yes, but self defense is not limited to martial art practice alone.
OP
jjmcc
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #33
Yes i understand this but a lot of people out there don't.47MartialMan said:
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
Well it is up to those that do, educate or give more publicity....hmmnnnjjmcc said:
OP
Tidy_Sammy
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #35
I agree with you Jason, sadly though, cigarettes etc are much more profitable thus the reason I would imagine they would rather incorporate them into their advertisements, even if it is at the cost of peoples health.
Differentiating between 'MA' and 'self defense' is important, not all MA's are very efficient in real life environments, some arts will practise moves that are as good as obselete just so as not to veer away from tradition.
This is why MMA's have their advantages, it also falls upon the individual, if you study a strickly striking art, you're probably a good fighter, that is, until you're on the ground, then you don't have a clue what to do, this is why people should learn to adapt to different situations, whether it means switching arts or just adding another art to your collection.
Back to topic though, I do think people should be taught, and more away (advertising) of self defense.
Differentiating between 'MA' and 'self defense' is important, not all MA's are very efficient in real life environments, some arts will practise moves that are as good as obselete just so as not to veer away from tradition.
This is why MMA's have their advantages, it also falls upon the individual, if you study a strickly striking art, you're probably a good fighter, that is, until you're on the ground, then you don't have a clue what to do, this is why people should learn to adapt to different situations, whether it means switching arts or just adding another art to your collection.
Back to topic though, I do think people should be taught, and more away (advertising) of self defense.
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
We need more martial artists that are producers/journalists...and thus educating the general public.........
MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
I, personally, am rather proud to practice something that not many people do. Every time you mass market something to make it known to the general public, inevitably you have to dumb it down to make it palatable. All you have to do to verify this is look at your typical stripmall/storefront/massmarket martial arts school. Their biggest concern is advertising and getting customers in the door. And because they want to keep people coming back, martial arts are dumbed down and watered down to this "activity good for the whole family". Doesn't matter how good the students are. And lets face it, most of them are horrible, because martial arts is just one more thing they do during the week.
I've said it before: I'd rather have 10 dedicated students who train hard and listen than 150 students, 5 of whom might be worth anything and the rest are just there. It's like when I first became a black belt. I thought it was special until I learned how many other people were black belts and how bad most of them were.
But 47Martialman went in the right direction. One of the ways martial arts CAN improve its publicity is by having more practitioners (and by this I mean higher level black belts) in professional positions. I don't mean as martial arts instructors. Those are a dime a dozen. The average person doesn't really care about instructors, once they get past the novelty. No, we need these higher level black belts as teachers, businessmen, doctors, judges, and professional people. These positions are respected by average people. And it would, I think, cause more people to respect martial arts. Because, let's face it, the martial arts have earned this reputation as a cartoonish stereotype.
Just for the record, our Grandmaster will not recommend anyone to Master or above who has not established themselves in a good job. In other words, if you work at McDonalds or some low paying job, he will not recommend you. He wants the people leading his organization to be professionals in and out of class.
I've said it before: I'd rather have 10 dedicated students who train hard and listen than 150 students, 5 of whom might be worth anything and the rest are just there. It's like when I first became a black belt. I thought it was special until I learned how many other people were black belts and how bad most of them were.
But 47Martialman went in the right direction. One of the ways martial arts CAN improve its publicity is by having more practitioners (and by this I mean higher level black belts) in professional positions. I don't mean as martial arts instructors. Those are a dime a dozen. The average person doesn't really care about instructors, once they get past the novelty. No, we need these higher level black belts as teachers, businessmen, doctors, judges, and professional people. These positions are respected by average people. And it would, I think, cause more people to respect martial arts. Because, let's face it, the martial arts have earned this reputation as a cartoonish stereotype.
Just for the record, our Grandmaster will not recommend anyone to Master or above who has not established themselves in a good job. In other words, if you work at McDonalds or some low paying job, he will not recommend you. He wants the people leading his organization to be professionals in and out of class.
OP
jjmcc
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #38
Great posts guys i agree with all of your posts
Michagan tkd i dont think you get exactly what i mean i do believe that MA is a whole different ball game but self defence is a whole different topic and as 47martialman did so rightly say that it is not only martial arts that teach self defence which is true but should'nt we be the first to introduce this to the masses. Can MA and general just general self defence be able to survive without each other then if they feel they would like to further their experiences then they can look to study a MA with them having that small insite. It would generate a lot more loyal practitioners rather than them coming for 1 class and never seen again.......
Michagan tkd i dont think you get exactly what i mean i do believe that MA is a whole different ball game but self defence is a whole different topic and as 47martialman did so rightly say that it is not only martial arts that teach self defence which is true but should'nt we be the first to introduce this to the masses. Can MA and general just general self defence be able to survive without each other then if they feel they would like to further their experiences then they can look to study a MA with them having that small insite. It would generate a lot more loyal practitioners rather than them coming for 1 class and never seen again.......
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
However, I often c0me across people that only desire to studt self defense...
This is a separate curriculum in our system....
There aren't any ranks, no wide stance....no high kicking....no punching straight.....no comfortable workout clothes..but street attire....
Therefore, these people leave the curriculum/course with a better undestanding...
Because the many classes in the beginning are on mental...the physical comes much later....
This is a separate curriculum in our system....
There aren't any ranks, no wide stance....no high kicking....no punching straight.....no comfortable workout clothes..but street attire....
Therefore, these people leave the curriculum/course with a better undestanding...
Because the many classes in the beginning are on mental...the physical comes much later....
