Lok Yiu and Leung Ting - differences?

[yak sao]

i've seen Leung Ting taken down by a grappler on You tube but he was relaxed and came out of it very quickly and was back on his feet. I've seen Emin Boztepe hit, but he went on to totally dominate the person who hit him.
No one will ever get so good that they can't be hit or taken to the ground, but I think you stand a much better chance of succeeding by studying a system such as WT/WC that gives you a very broad base for understanding fighting. Granted, BJJ has a better ground game, Fillipino arts have a better weapons game, yada yada, but overall WT/Wc teaches you how to fight and I think overall, you're better off going into a self defense situation knowing what you are going to do because you have spent countless hours training it, than taking the cherry picking approach and doing a little of this from one system and a little of that from another.

 

[geezer]

Do you believe WC is a perfect circle and has no need for outside arts to enhance it like Brazilian Jijitsu or some other ground game?


Do you think Leung Ting or Yip Man could not be moved by a grappler?

I believe this was directed to Larry, but here's my two cents anyway: I often heard Leung Ting say that Wing Tsun was a complete martial art.
That is to say that it has everything you need to defend yourself, including effective responses to long and short range fighting, grappling, throws, and groundfighting.

As for myself, I believe there is some truth to that position. A really, really good WC/WT man can handle himself in a wide variety of situations, not just standup percussive infighting. And I believe that in their prime, Great Grandmaster Yip and all his better students, including Leung Ting, would have given any attacker a tough time.

Now having said that, I still practice Escrima as well as WT, and still hope to find time to learn some BJJ... old as I am. But that's just me.

 

[Beginner's Mind]

I was wondering when this would come up.

 

[AceHBK]

I was wondering when this would come up.

Im tired of seeing the topic quite frankly. There are too many threads on this and there is no need to turn this thread into it.

 

[bs10927]

Do you believe WC is a perfect circle and has no need for outside arts to enhance it like Brazilian Jijitsu or some other ground game?


Do you think Leung Ting or Yip Man could not be moved by a grappler?

uh-oh...:xtrmshock

 

[bs10927]

I was wondering when this would come up.

yes! and so it begins.....lol

 

[geezer]

yes! and so it begins.....lol

At first I didn't catch what you guys were warning about. No problem. If this thread turns into another one of those obnoxius, "My sifu can whup your sifu" arguments, or "My WC is better than yours" rants, I'll just bail. Meanwhile, I'll hang around. Call me naive, but lately we've had a pretty respectful dialogue around here. Guess we'll see soon enough, eh?

 

[AceHBK]

At first I didn't catch what you guys were warning about. No problem. If this thread turns into another one of those obnoxius, "My sifu can whup your sifu" arguments, or "My WC is better than yours" rants, I'll just bail. Meanwhile, I'll hang around. Call me naive, but lately we've had a pretty respectful dialogue around here. Guess we'll see soon enough, eh?

Ahh...Grandmaster Almightyness Geezer feels the glass is half full.

 

[geezer]

Ahh...Grandmaster Almightyness Geezer feels the glass is half full.

Damn you, Ace. I just read your comment and snorted my drink out my nose again. This time it was OJ. Do you have any idea how much that burns???

 

[AceHBK]

Damn you, Ace. I just read your comment and snorted my drink out my nose again. This time it was OJ. Do you have any idea how much that burns???

LOL!!

:lfao:

 

[Beginner's Mind]

I feel I must stress that, when I started this thread, I didn't want to compare Leung Ting to Lok Yiu lineages in terms who can kick more backside. I'm just interested what the differences between the two branches are, in case someone has trained both.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Ha Ha I don't think anyone on the board studies Lok Yiu lineage...I coud be wrong?

I feel I must stress that, when I started this thread, I didn't want to compare Leung Ting to Lok Yiu lineages in terms who can kick more backside. I'm just interested what the differences between the two branches are, in case someone has trained both.

 

[Beginner's Mind]

Well, I study the Lok Yiu lineage. But I know very little about Leung Ting's style. I've seen a few clips and demonstrations. I couldn't recognize a Leung Ting or a Lok Yiu student by his stance, techniques...

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay Beginners Mind is Lok Yiu disciple...


Are there any Leung Ting's Disciples?

Well, I study the Lok Yiu lineage. But I know very little about Leung Ting's style. I've seen a few clips and demonstrations. I couldn't recognize a Leung Ting or a Lok Yiu student by his stance, techniques...

 

[geezer]

Okay Beginners Mind is Lok Yiu disciple...
Are there any Leung Ting's Disciples?

Leung Ting? Well, you know that's my background, Yoshi. I also briefly studied Augustine Fong's WC. He learned from Ho Kam Ming of Macau, who, in turn, was a student of Grandmaster Yip slightly later than Lok Yiu. But I don't how his technique compares to the early guys like Leung Sheung, Lok Yiu or Tsui Sheung Tin... or even if those three guys were very similar to each other. What sayest thou, Mook?

 

[geezer]

Oh, there is something else that might be relevant here. Leung Ting was originally a student of Leung Sheung. They apparently did not get on well at all, and Leung Ting felt that Leung Sheung deliberately held back his training.

Actually, it worked out pretty well for Leung Ting in the long run, since apparently Dai Si-hing Leung Sheung had a spat with Grandmaster Yip. Grandmaster Yip knew of the enmity between Leung Sheung and his student Leung Ting. So, in order to "put Leung Sheung in his place" Grandmaster Yip accepted Leung Ting as his own student for a brief time, as sort of a slap in the face to Leung Sheung, and not because he had any special interest in Leung Ting at that time. But whatever the reasons, the rest is history. Contested and disputed history, that is! LOL.

But at any rate, I granted Leung Ting's background, I can't help but wonder how much of his WT resembles Leung Sheung's and how much was changed after he learned from Grandmaster Yip in his final period.

 

[mook jong man]

What sayest thou, Mook?

Sorry man I've got nothing , I have never met anybody from Leung Sheung , or Lok Yiu lineages .

All I know is that Leung Sheung , Lok Yiu , and Tsui Seung Tin all lived together with Yip Man for several years .

So I suppose being in close contact it is concievable that their methods might be similar , but this is strictly conjecture on my part.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well what about Sil Lim Tau


Lets look at how they perform Sil Lim Tau differently

Tsui Seung

Do you guys got any videos of the following people?

Leung Ting


Lok Yiu


Leung Sheung

Sorry man I've got nothing , I have never met anybody from Leung Sheung , or Lok Yiu lineages .

All I know is that Leung Sheung , Lok Yiu , and Tsui Seung Tin all lived together with Yip Man for several years .

So I suppose being in close contact it is concievable that their methods might be similar , but this is strictly conjecture on my part.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

I'm not sure, but I think one of the people my Sigung trained with/under wasLok Yiu. Here are some videos so you can judge for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPfJqkQ3nCw&feature=related

You can find a lot of examples of WT on youtube.

There are diffrences for sure but nothing drastic. Not like some difrences I've seen when comparing Ip Man lineage to non Ip Man lineage.