William Cheung, Leung Ting

Jam_master

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Kong said:
I saw that video with Cheung and Emin rolling around on the floor, not very impressive. But I guess the circumstances would have alot to do with the quality of the fight, I mean if Cheung really got jumped from behind while giving his demo, very foul play indeed. Also the video clip (I assume we`ve seen the same one from the internet) ends abruptly, and you don`t really see how it ends. Anybody knows if there ever was, or is going to be, a "rematch" considering the amount of controversy this footage started and the fact a challenge was issued in the first place?
It doesn't show any beginning or end, and I doubt if anyone is ever going to. Emin and his people have made sure of that since they went to the Demo specifically to set Sifu Cheung up. They had their camera's ready!!!
 

bcbernam777

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There was no successor named by Yip Man, there are simply students who learnt of Yip man and are now teaching, simple, there where students who learnt off of Yip Man longer than both William Cheung (4 years according to other 1st gens of Yip Man, 6 years according to William Cheung) and Leung Ting (whom at worst it is doubtful he learnt of Yip Man at all, and at best only learnt with Yip Man for 9 months after studying with a 1st gen student of Yip mans). at the end of the day, the successor argument has been around for years and it's only apparant usefullness is that it can be plastered on the back of marketing brochures. My Sifu learnt from yip man, so did many others who dont run around proclaiming themselves to be the successor to Yip Man. The only one who can answer that question is no longer with us, and he did not proclaim a single person as his successor. This argument, is better left alone, as at the end of the day it makes no diffeerence, the only thing that matters is "who can do it" who can make their Wing Chun work in a real and dynamic sense, on the street, the tournament, whatever, wherever, that is the only thing that matters.
 

Flash25

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bcbernam777 said:
and Leung Ting (whom at worst it is doubtful he learnt of Yip Man at all, and at best only learnt with Yip Man for 9 months after studying with a 1st gen student of Yip mans).

and how do you know this?
 

bcbernam777

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Flash25 said:
and how do you know this?
My Sifu did study with Yip Man, during the early 50's (of Bruce vintage) and also by Leung tings own admission saying that he studied 9 months with Yip Man also verified in an article written by Kernscphect
 

Flash25

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If you know that he studied with Yip Man for 9 months, why do you imply that he may not have studied with him at all?
 

bcbernam777

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Flash25 said:
If you know that he studied with Yip Man for 9 months, why do you imply that he may not have studied with him at all?
I dont know that he studied with YM for 9 months, that is Leung Tings claim.
 
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juntao wing chun

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cheung, Leung Ting,Emin Boztepe,moy yat, they all are connected to yipman becuase of wing chun,and im sure everyone of them teach to be a calm and cool person ,but sometimes todays human comes out ,...........
 
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juntao wing chun

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hey some one mite have a problem with me visiting there schools asking for just a day of trainin wich i have done and still do and i enter with repect and maybe Emin Boztepe went there just to fight but people dont know why Emin Boztepe did that to William Cheung and really who gives a care...i dont, ive train with followers of cheung, Leung Ting,Emin Boztepe,moy yat ways of wing chun and some were cool and some were tuff guys and i got good training out of all of them my sifu allways said to keep your training goin out side of class buy "touching different handssssss" and some schools dont want visiters at all .......o'well
 

Flying Crane

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politics in Wing Chun, like most other martial arts, can get pretty ugly. Everybody hates everybody. I don't believe Yip Man left a designated successor. If he did, it would most likely have been one of his sons. Meantime, many people trained at his school, and have become instructors in their own right. Pick one you like, and train with him. And Yip Man's lineage is not the only wing chun lineage.
 
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sifupr

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Brother John said:
. . . . .
ALSO: Why does Leung Ting use the spelling Ving Tsun?
is it as simple as the difference between Madarin and Cantonese or what???Your Brother
John
Hong Kong was a British colony for years. The Brits used the term "water closet" (WC) for toilet. The people at the VTAA didn't want to associate the initials WC for their beloved system so they changed the Romanization to 'VT'. Leung Ting designated his branch with the initials, WT.
When a native Cantonese reader sees the Chinese characters for Wing Chun they will pronounce it "Wing Choon" regardless of what Romanization we Westerners use. ;) (Mandarin is Yong/Yung Chun)
PR
 

mantis

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sifupr said:
Hong Kong was a British colony for years. The Brits used the term "water closet" (WC) for toilet. The people at the VTAA didn't want to associate the initials WC for their beloved system so they changed the Romanization to 'VT'. Leung Ting designated his branch with the initials, WT.
When a native Cantonese reader sees the Chinese characters for Wing Chun they will pronounce it "Wing Choon" regardless of what Romanization we Westerners use. ;) (Mandarin is Yong/Yung Chun)
PR
is this why?
i thought coz europeans, especially nations who speak dutch mis-pronounce the w and they say it as a "v".
like Volks wager is pronounced Volks Vagen...
hmmm... interesting
i even thought WC stands for War Craft... i been cheated man
 

ed-swckf

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The reason leung ting in particular spells it different is because he actually copyrighted that particular spelling in order to make a marketable definition of his brand of the art.
 

Shaolin Bushido

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Kong said:
I saw that video with Cheung and Emin rolling around on the floor, not very impressive. But I guess the circumstances would have alot to do with the quality of the fight, I mean if Cheung really got jumped from behind while giving his demo, very foul play indeed. Also the video clip (I assume we`ve seen the same one from the internet) ends abruptly, and you don`t really see how it ends. Anybody knows if there ever was, or is going to be, a "rematch" considering the amount of controversy this footage started and the fact a challenge was issued in the first place?

Emin was a young man while William Cheung was pretty old at the time. That was just an embarassment.
 

JAMJTX

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And he was not jumped from behind. Emin asked him if he was ready to fight. He said yes.
 
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sifupr

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JAMJTX said:
And he was not jumped from behind. Emin asked him if he was ready to fight. He said yes.
Not really. People who were there including some of the VT people said William Cheung told him later then was jumped as he turned away. After the incident he continued with the seminar so he wasn't hurt. Think of it like this Cheung was older was teaching and traveling all over the world. He wasn't training to fight. Whereas Emin was training for the attack This has been discussed to death on so many forums and is OLD news.
PR
 

arnisador

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Yes, this really is an old story. I think it lives on because there are so few modern stories of masters dueling.
 

yipman_sifu

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Brother John said:
I am not a Wing Chun practitioner, but appreciate the styles practicallity and the skills of it's practitioners.... I just want you to know that I don't intend to stir ill-will by posting this question, it's spawned by curiousity and my desire to fill my gaps of ignorance.

Several years ago I recall reading several articles in Black Belt Magazine and Inside Kung-Fu Magazine in which it was being debated as to who was Grandmaster Yip Man's legitamit successor... William Cheung or Leung Ting. (hope I'm not mispelling either)

What ever came of this debate??

ALSO: Why does Leung Ting use the spelling Ving Tsun?
is it as simple as the difference between Madarin and Cantonese or what???

Thanks for helping!
Your Brother
John

My friend, Leung ting branch is Wing Tsun not Ving Tsun.
Regarding Yipman's successor. I believe that there are masters that are even older and more experienced, although I believe that Master Leung Ting can be given such a title. If you know guys like masres (Leung Sheung, Lok Yiu, Victor Kan), they are also top masters that can be given such title.

Did you forgot master Tsui Seung Tin. Master Yipman admitted once that this disciple had surpassed even his own skill in fighting.
What about the Legend Wong Sheung Leung. In my opinion, He and master Tsui were the real best top students of Yipman.
 

jamil08

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Good afternoon to all,

As a former TWC practicioner and a current WT (the correct trademark spelling is not VT for neither Leung Ting or Emin Boztepe-EBMAS) I will like to clarify a few points that I personally deem as an insult and worst of all, biased.
There are good and bad personalities in both schools of thought. I personally beginned my Wing Chun training in the Traditional Wing Chun school which calls itself "The Wing Chun Society." My experiences there were horrible: the instructor was very racist, he made racial comments at every class I'd attended, took my money for two months and didn't teach me anything (90% of his time was spent in teaching his other students who were not African American) and so I left.
But there is another more disturbing notion that bothered me even more: how they ragged on and on about "Emin Boztepe." And boy, believe me, they hate him with a passion. I eventually left their school and joined the EMBAS headquarter school in Brooklyn two summers later. And so far, my experiences there has been fantastic. From day one, I was made to feel at home.
It wasn't the same with the WT school I'd previously attended. Those guys and girls were more like "what the $^&@& are you doing here? Scram!" These experiences goes to show that the differences of what I believe to be 'sibling rivalry' derives from the individual schools not the founders. I believe there are good, respectable, and well mannered TWT schools out there but I haven't found one. Likewise one the reverse with the EBMAS schools. Every school may not adhere to the same "knights in shining armor philosophy" my EBMAS school does.
The other major difference is in terms of philosophical concept and on this one, I must admit to: many EBMAS practicioners feel that their Leung Ting Wing Tsun is better than that of Traditional Wing Chun practioners. I mean, there is no need to lie about it. Either TWT guys are doing something wrong or they're trying to build our self confidence because they get punched in the chest and face a lot when our schools come together.
Now on account of Emin Boztepe, the guy is NOT a thug. He is a very very very nice guy. And the funny thing is, he only mentions the fight he had with Grandmaster William Cheung if a student asks. He did not "jump" William Cheung as some ill informed TWT practioner mentioned on this site. Personal words to that individual: go look at the video on youtube.com before you make another biased comment.
Concerning the centerline theory, both schools believe the same exact thing. It's just that the TWT schools included a "centreline theory." Both schools target the opponents centerline but the ways of engaging or attacking this line varies amongst the schools. For instance, Leung Tings schools don't block. William Cheung schools do, they call it "deflecting the attack." Concept: the pinball effect. Leung Tings schools perform footwork that involves pivoting, sliding, circling and a 100/0 triangle stance (back stance). William Cheung schools are transitional; they prefer steps to pivots and a 50/50 stance that's similar that of a boxer.
On the outcome of the whole Leung Ting and William Cheung mess. I've been searching for those answers for some time now and I came to two conclusions. Either somebody is lieing about being Yip Man's student (ever taken notice to the fact that every branch style of Wing Chun in America proclaims Yip Man was their progenator?) or we as humble practioners will never know the truth because our founding fathers won't tell us for sake of promotion and the possibility of losing students. Guess they are taking this one to the grave fellow brothers and sisters. Peace.
 

geezer

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Good afternoon to all,

... we as humble practioners will never know the truth because our founding fathers won't tell us for sake of promotion and the possibility of losing students. Guess they are taking this one to the grave fellow brothers and sisters. Peace.

In the interests of peace, let's bury this old thread!, I've met people from a lot of different WT/WC lineages, and found good people everywhere. The leaders of some of the main lineages have their differences. We, as students or sifus don't have to buy into that crap. Just let it go....
 
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