Lets get real about the USAT..

IcemanSK

El Conquistador nim!
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
6,479
Reaction score
176
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Forgive me for playing the Devil's Advocate here. But, who would be another "poomsae Guru" that they could get to help the US team as coach? Is there a depth of folks who could/would/should have been a suitable coach for the US team?
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,271
Reaction score
1,029
Location
In Pain
I have been told a lot of things of people, using good taste I choose not to post them. I can tell that you have a passion for something, I just not so sure what it is! I read you blog. I get it. You feel you have been wronged, and you may have been. I just know that if I were Master Kim and I were to read your post here that it would be upsetting. I have met the man once at a team training session last year, He seemed very knowledgeable of poomsae. As for me training, well.......:ultracool


Considering I am ignorant of the USAT stuff past what I read here (and thank the stars I am not involved)

I simply do not get what you are trying to point out.

To me - the uninvolved - it seems that Master Kim has been handed the off hand assignment of coaching Poomse (the apparent red headed step child of the USAT) in spite of him being more qualified in the sparring game, having produced one contender....not being unqualified in coaching Poomse...
Personally I read this thread as pretty much everybody thinks Master Kim was given the short end of the stick (another phrase comes to mind, but it's kinds gross)

I tell you the impression I have from this club:

It's the Lopez cheer group.
I might be wrong, quiet possibly.
But the great length the organization seems to go through to make sure that that name appears on the roster, that's scary. Not that that would be a new things in organized sports, far from it. But it still not not anymore palatable.
 

andyjeffries

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
271
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK
I have been told a lot of things of people, using good taste I choose not to post them. I can tell that you have a passion for something, I just not so sure what it is! I read you blog. I get it. You feel you have been wronged, and you may have been. I just know that if I were Master Kim and I were to read your post here that it would be upsetting. I have met the man once at a team training session last year, He seemed very knowledgeable of poomsae. As for me training, well.......:ultracool

Hi Poomsaeguy,

In case we haven't chatted on here before - let me start by saying I'm not American, I don't live in America and have no vested interested in the politics of USAT.

That out of the way, I know some people have an issue with RSweet, but in this case I don't think she's been offensive/disrespectful. Her quotes that seem to have been misread:

"Why is Jimmy Kim in charge of poomsae? Let me count the ways. JImmy Kim is a great guy and interested in poomsae."

Positive

"I have been personally informed by David Askinas and the High Performance Director that it is their and the head coaches opinion that Master Kim is a lousy coach and they won't appoint him.
"

Reporting someone else's opinion of him and why he won't get a sparring coaching role.

"
Master Kim is a great guy, a hard working instructor and obviously he has accomplished a lot. At the last Olympics he was the only instructor to put a student on the Olympic Team besides Jean Lopez"

Positive.

Then you came back with "
No, I meant that YOU were very disrepectful!". Where was RSweet disrespectful? She's said only positive things about Master Kim and said that others are playing political games (and that she disagrees with them and hopes those people aren't in USAT much longer).

Can you explain what RSweet said that was disrespectful? (unless you're talking about disrespectful to Davis Askinas not Master Kim, but you seem to have defended Master Kim in other posts).

It feels like there's an argument brewing here because you thought RSweet held the opinion "
Master Kim is a lousy coach" yet she was reporting other people's opinion while confirming she disagreed with it.
 

Poomsaeguy

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
I have no problem with rsweet (we are FB friends), I have no problem with USAT and I really don't know Master Kim very well. With that said I still feel somethings are better left unsaid! Who said what about who, I was told this about this person........ waste of time!
 

RSweet

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
6
I have been told a lot of things of people, using good taste I choose not to post them. I can tell that you have a passion for something, I just not so sure what it is! I read you blog. I get it. You feel you have been wronged, and you may have been. I just know that if I were Master Kim and I were to read your post here that it would be upsetting. I have met the man once at a team training session last year, He seemed very knowledgeable of poomsae. As for me training, well.......:ultracool

So you do or don't train? Can't answer a simple question? You met Master Kim once and you presume to understand how he thinks. I happen to know for a fact he has been cheated out of even more recent coaching positions and he wasn't happy at all. You say you hear things and make implications but present no facts. So no you don't get it. You pose under an assumed name, throw out veiled personal attacks, no real information. I get it. You don't. I am not the only one wronged. They like to kill the messenger. It doesn't change that I put out facts unlike you who make veiled references. Master Kim knows the US Coaches and the CEO have dumped on him. Ask him. Almost every member of the USAT has been wronged by the policies and lack of governance of this organization. You probably don't read financials, so you miss how deep in the hole the USAT is. Where are the 2010 financials? Why are they always posted late? Why are staff members worried that there is not enough money for payroll through the end of the year when the biggest event was just over? How can a former super power in the game go 0-20 at every World event - and that doesn't include the recent poomsae World Championships. Not one medal at a WTF event in the pre-Olympic year! Not one USA athlete in the top 10 of WTF ranked athletes. If you really cared about the poomsae team, you would be out there just as upset over the fact USAT does not pay to send the team and barely supports it. The BOD refused to even consider a mandate to support this team I presented to them and in fact refused to allow the wording of this to be in the minutes of the meeting so that members wouldn't know that it had been presented and rejected. So as for you.......
 

Poomsaeguy

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
Okay....I never said I understand how Master Kim Thinks or feels!
and as far as my name it is Master Tim Steger
My training record is:
Sabomnim Tim Steger[h=3]- Owner/Lead Instructor
- Member, 2010 US National Taekwondo Poomsae Team
-Poomsae Team Coach, Florida Taekwondo Association
-5th Dan Kukkiwon[/h]Rank
- 5th Dan Kukkiwon
- 5th Dan USA Taekwondo
- 5th Dan AAU
- 5th Dan World Martial Arts Taekwondo Association (Florida)
Certifications
- Kukkiwon Certified International Licensed
Instructor
- PATU Certified International Poomsae Referee
- USA Taekwondo Poomsae Referee
- USA Taekwondo Olympic Sparring Referee
- USA Taekwondo Certified Coach
- AAU Certified Coach
- USA Taekwondo MAC Florida State Commissioner
Tournament Record 2011
2011 USAT South Carolina State: Gold (Sport poomsae)
2011 USAT Florida State: Gold (Sport poomsae)
2011 USAT National Qualifier (Buffalo, NY): Gold (Sport poomsae - individual), Gold (Sport poomsae - teams)
2011 USAT National Poomsae Team Trials: Bronze (individual), Silver (teams)
2011 US National Championships: Gold (Sport poomsae), Gold (Second Male Team)
2011 Yong-In University Presidential Cup (Greensboro, NC): Gold (Sport poomsae), Grand Champion (Sport poomsae)
Tournament Record 2010
2010 US Open: Bronze (Sport poomsae)
2010 USAT Florida State: Gold (Sport poomsae)
2010 USAT National Poomsae Team Trials: Silver - member, USAT 2010 National Poomsae Team
2010 US National Championships: Gold (Ultra Forms), Silver (Sport poomsae)

Tournament Record 2009
2009 USAT Florida State: Gold
2009 USAT Kissimmee Qualifier: Gold
2009 US Open: Silver
2009 Sunshine State Games: Gold
2009 USAT National Poomsae Team Trials: 2nd place/Silver
 

Poomsaeguy

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
and I am a nice guy! Relax.....I'm not bashing anyone. Breath.......
 

miguksaram

Master of Arts
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
1,971
Reaction score
32
Location
Aurora, IL
No, I meant that YOU were very disrepectful! I sometimes like your posts, but I think sometimes you go too far. My I ask, do you train in Taekwondo?
How is it being disrespectful? RS was saying that he is a great guy and an excellent coach. It is the USAT who will not give him his due respect as a fighting coach.

Though I will admit saying that he is coaching poomsae as a consolation prize is bit rough. Are you saying that Poomsae competitors are below fighters and thus anyone who assigned to coaching them got "stuck" with them?
 

Cyriacus

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
I havent met Master Kim, but i know enough about him to know that he is not being placed in an area were he may perhaps be able to do the most good. And it is quite inconsiderate to be continuously backburning him, without giving him a position at least close to what he wants.

Now prepare for a bit off Off-Topicness;

How is it being disrespectful? RS was saying that he is a great guy and an excellent coach. It is the USAT who will not give him his due respect as a fighting coach.

Though I will admit saying that he is coaching poomsae as a consolation prize is bit rough. Are you saying that Poomsae competitors are below fighters and thus anyone who assigned to coaching them got "stuck" with them?
Allow me to join in on this fun conversation.
The person he asked, "Do you train in Taekwondo"; If his profile is correct, which id say it is, puts him as a 6th Dan.
I will mainly say though, that nobody needs to relax, or breathe. They are merely questioning your motives, intentions, and idealogies. You are being needlessly defensive. And since the original post did not include a Quotation, it is naturally assumed, mostly due to its location, that it is directed to the OP.
Perhaps reconsider your wording in future.
Whilst likely not deliberately, You, Poomsaeguy, to clarify who i am speaking to, came across as somewhat hostile and/or provocative.
Always remember that Text may not come accross like Speech, and that more detail is necessary to properly convey idealogies.
There were also three ways the post could be taken - As a criticism of the OP, as a praise of the OP, or as it is, a Criticism derived of your interpritation of the previous post.
To put it another way, re-read your own Post as if you werent aware of your own intentions. Since its read as "You were being disrespectful and i dont like your posts sometimes. Do you actually train Taekwondo or are you just bashing people."
Hence the need for clarifications, and perhaps better phrasing :)
I mainly say this, since this doesnt seem to be the first time youve had to say that your "Not Bashing Anyone".
The issue isnt your views, its the way you communicate them at times, which is often caused by providing insufficient information, or by phrasing things... strangely.
Quoting yourself, and then posing a question, for example, makes little sense.
 

RSweet

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
6
Though I will admit saying that he is coaching poomsae as a consolation prize is bit rough. Are you saying that Poomsae competitors are below fighters and thus anyone who assigned to coaching them got "stuck" with them?
That is not what I said or implied. That may be how USAT National Coaches and the CEO feel since that is the assignment that gave him after shafting him on the 2008 Olympics and 2011 Worlds and other WTF events. Ever see one of the National Coaches coach poomsae?

For the record the poomsae competitors are wonderful. They have paid through the nose and gotten virtually nothing. The USAT barely treats it like a real team. They believe enough in what they are doing to go out and compete without USOC money and without USAT staff and support. Anyone remember Turkey where David Askinas swore that the USAT would pay the entry fees and the team arrived and had to pass the hat because "he didn't know where to send the money."? 2 members of the team, including MSUTKD had to spend over a day working with the Turkish group to even get them allow the team to compete. I won't go into what had to be done on the other end to get the team anything after the fact.
 

Poomsaeguy

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
I will end this like most of my disagreement "honey, your right.. I shouldn't have said that! Where you you like to go for dinner.... and if you like we can take your wonderful mother along!" :)
 

Cyriacus

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
That is not what I said or implied. That may be how USAT National Coaches and the CEO feel since that is the assignment that gave him after shafting him on the 2008 Olympics and 2011 Worlds and other WTF events. Ever see one of the National Coaches coach poomsae?

For the record the poomsae competitors are wonderful. They have paid through the nose and gotten virtually nothing. The USAT barely treats it like a real team. They believe enough in what they are doing to go out and compete without USOC money and without USAT staff and support. Anyone remember Turkey where David Askinas swore that the USAT would pay the entry fees and the team arrived and had to pass the hat because "he didn't know where to send the money."? 2 members of the team, including MSUTKD had to spend over a day working with the Turkish group to even get them allow the team to compete. I won't go into what had to be done on the other end to get the team anything after the fact.
If im not mistaken, you meant that Master Kim would have preferred to be doing Sparring, and was sent to what may be considered the next best thing for him instead, and that just the fact that hes coaching on that level is the 'Consolidation'?
 

Cyriacus

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
I will end this like most of my disagreement "honey, your right.. I shouldn't have said that! Where you you like to go for dinner.... and if you like we can take your wonderful mother along!" :)
Just keep an open mind to how other people will read what you say - And isnt it a bit early for Dinner? Oh wait, you werent asking me. Well bleh.
 

RSweet

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
6
I have no problem with rsweet (we are FB friends), I have no problem with USAT and I really don't know Master Kim very well. With that said I still feel somethings are better left unsaid! Who said what about who, I was told this about this person........ waste of time!

This is my last comment on the issue, there are no problems. I will let you know that one these boards the "do you train taekwondo" is usually considered to be an attempt at insulting the person to whom it is aimed. I know now you didn't mean it that way.

I do want to say that I respect that you feel that some things needs to be left unsaid and believe me, I leave much more in the backroom than bring out here. However, that having been said, one of the reasons that certain people get away with discrimination is that those unpleasant things get left unsaid. One of the reasons that the USOC brought the USAT BOD and CEO and reamed them for how this organization is being governed is that things that were being left unsaid by all those hundreds of coaches and athletes and members who wouldn't say them got said. Beyond that they were backed with facts. I could have said that people dissed his coaching ability but the fact is the people who said it personally to me were the CEO and the High Performance Director. With those two people espousing that opinion, it is beyond obvious that the USAT leadership discriminated and continues to discriminate against not just Master Kim but many others that I am not going to name today because I do have things to do today and it is a long list. I am hopeful that the recent events that appear to be the USOC stepping in and stepping on the BOD and CEO are steps in the right direction to the transparency the USAT was promised in 2004 when Bob Gambardella took over from USTU.
 

RSweet

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
6
I will end this like most of my disagreement "honey, your right.. I shouldn't have said that! Where you you like to go for dinner.... and if you like we can take your wonderful mother along!" :)
Thank you - I know some wonderful restaurants here in New Orleans. And more than anything in this world, I wish I could take my mother anywhere.
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,271
Reaction score
1,029
Location
In Pain
I will end this like most of my disagreement "honey, your right.. I shouldn't have said that! Where you you like to go for dinner.... and if you like we can take your wonderful mother along!" :)

almost sounds like a proposal....
 

Poomsaeguy

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
Well, I was refering to how I end most of the disagreements with my wife! Meaning I really don't see how I can win so I give up.Just a joke. Didn't mean to upset anyone.
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
337
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
First off to Iceman question, I simply do not see the USA having a poomsae guru>. I see us having alot of very talented people that can help this sport of poomsae grow into a machine one day. I would say the best people to teach us here in America are the one's going to world in poomsae, they are there living and doing it. I wish some of them would get together and do a tour of the US and have weekend camps to bring this all together for us. I know MSUTKD and Taekwondodo and poomsaeguy just to name a few could do a great job at bringing this to the masses. I know if I could afford to bring them to Texas I would bring all three of them for the weekend, Taekwondodo has done great with my boys even though it was only once and we need to have her back simply because she is wonderful at it, MSUTKD is great as well and I have seen poomsaeguy preform as well.


Now on to this rsweat thing she has always been very vocal about her feelings and what she believe to be a wrong, whether any of us like it or not she is entitle to her opinions and facts just like anybody else. She has always ben very passionate about any quest she has taken on and will always be. Over the years I have come to find out she is always in the middle of everything and has brought out some great stuff with regards to wrong doings. I may not always agree with everything she has ever said I do appreciate her commitment for what she believes in.


Last thing about the Lopezs yes they can do poomsae are they the very best at it probaly not but they do know them. I am not sticking up for them at all but lets be honest so many people bash them just because of who they are and not for the right reasons. I have heard people say the are rude and everything, well in the ten years I have known them the have always been respectful to me and my family maybe we are lucky. I do know all of us are rude at times, I will leave with this I am not for them or against them all I want is a fair org that is going to do the right thing for the people in the sport of TKD whether poomsae or sparring.
 
Top