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Xue Sheng

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no no no...its like this

1631837355607.jpeg
 

Gerry Seymour

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Ah, you are looking at the wrong info.
Maybe @Dirty Dog has a professional answer, but the Vaccine is just that, a vaccine, not a shot.
And I have not heard of a resistance to vaccines being developed by using one. Rather resistant strains are being bred by people who do not vaccinate and merrily spread the vorus about the community.
The Alpha variant was believed to slowly mutate about every 30th infection, a minor change
Now, however after we have seen several accelerated waves and several new variants (Lamda is the one to look out for) who knows.
You get a tetanus shot when you step on a rusty nail don't you, even if the previous booster was less than 10 years out.

And BTW, Tetanus, when started from scratch has a similar schedule as now suggested for COVID shots: 1sr and 2nd a month apart, then 6 months later a third shot. 10 years after that, or whenever a critical injury (like rusty nails) occurs.

What is the regimen for your lifestock? Spring shots, whether they are actually 'needed' or not.
because the ounce of prevention.....
The kind of resistance he's talking about is to antibiotics and such. It's usually caused by either over-use (using them when they aren't useful) or by incomplete use (so microbes that would have died with a full course of antibiotics may survive if you stop taking them early - ensuring those that survive the first couple of days have an advantage).
 

Gerry Seymour

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It's a great word. Where pathos is something that is sad, bathos is something that is supposed to be sad (or serious) but isn't. I tend to think of it being unintentional, though it can be used on purpose to good effect in comedy.
So, large portions of the content in MST3K.
 

_Simon_

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That is correct. You don't develop a resistance to vaccines. The virus can (and generally does) mutate so it's not as affected by the vaccine. So the vaccines are constantly being updated as new information comes in and new strains are found.
Yeah I discovered this when I got my flu vaxx a few months ago. I asked them how often is best to get the flu shot (as I hadn't had one in years), and she said that you could probably get it within 6 (or so?) months, but usually recommend yearly as they gain more updated information on the flu/virus going around, and the vaccine is updated based on current information.

I don't why I didnt know that already, but makes alot of sense!
 

Steve

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The kind of resistance he's talking about is to antibiotics and such. It's usually caused by either over-use (using them when they aren't useful) or by incomplete use (so microbes that would have died with a full course of antibiotics may survive if you stop taking them early - ensuring those that survive the first couple of days have an advantage).
Yeah. I think we all get that. The problem is, viruses arent treated with antibiotics. Which most of us also know.

And as said earlier, people dont build resistance to a vaccine. The virus mutates because thats what they do. The longer it takes for us to get transmission under control, the more we invite this. Its the exact opposite of what happens when you overuse an antibiotic. Flat wrong and ignorant. And in this case the ignorance is dangerous to himself and others.
 

Steve

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Yeah I discovered this when I got my flu vaxx a few months ago. I asked them how often is best to get the flu shot (as I hadn't had one in years), and she said that you could probably get it within 6 (or so?) months, but usually recommend yearly as they gain more updated information on the flu/virus going around, and the vaccine is updated based on current information.

I don't why I didnt know that already, but makes alot of sense!
Understanding that helps you understand why antibiotics are irrelevant, and why it's so important to control transmission. Every transmission from one sick person to another is a chance for a mutation. We can reach herd immunity in a few different ways. The best way is for everyone to get vaccinated and control the spread of the disease. If everyone would get vaccinated, I bet we'd see virtually zero transmission within 2 months.

Other ideas... we could let thousands of more people die and hope that their unnecessary sacrifice combined with the people who are vaccinated leads us to eventual herd immunity before the virus mutates into a strain that is virulent and resistant to the vaccine.

Or, maybe we could establish a quarantine island, like a leper colony, and just put all the anti-vaxxers in there. That's not a very good idea. I
 

dvcochran

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The kind of resistance he's talking about is to antibiotics and such. It's usually caused by either over-use (using them when they aren't useful) or by incomplete use (so microbes that would have died with a full course of antibiotics may survive if you stop taking them early - ensuring those that survive the first couple of days have an advantage).
By in large this correct.
But what I also attempted to infer (not too well) was how grossly overstated the effectiveness of the covid vaccine was presented, particularly by politicians, the media, and particularly Fauci. It has been said to be an end all, be all fix by many. Blatantly not true.
To be clear, I have never had an issue with the medical community for the most part. And, as anyone who has lived in the era of the Flu should understand, viruses mutate.

I am on TCA and NCBA cattle boards. Resistance and mutation in antibiotics and virus shields are something that has been an issue for as long as I can remember. They ebb & flow (like in humans) but consistently are more of a problem with virus shields than antibiotics. Some of this is believed to come from the treatment and processing of grasses and hay.
So figuring out the source can be elegant and hard to trace. Mother nature is a a fickle bxxxxh.
 

Steve

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I've never heard the term "virus shield" before. Is that a real thing, @Dirty Dog ?

Regarding the vaccine, we new at the outset that they were about 95% effective against the alpha strain. Even against the delta variant, we can see clearly that the vaccine is doing a great job of managing symptoms and minimizing the severity of the vaccine in those who have breakthrough infections. The ICUs are full again, and it's almost entirely people who are not vaccinated.

The tragic thing here is that some folks are looking desperately for a miracle cure, and are willing to inject de-worming medicine, or the latest is gargling iodine and betadine. But the vaccine does work. It functions as designed, and if people would just get vaccinated, it would literally create the herd immunity we need. It doesn't have to fix everything. It just needs to limit the number of severe cases to a manageable level, and stop or slow transmission to help avoid future mutant strains/

Some day, we should talk about how you guys have screwed up antibiotics, but that's a completely different conversation that has nothing to do with vaccines or viruses.
 

dvcochran

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I've never heard the term "virus shield" before. Is that a real thing, @Dirty Dog ?

Regarding the vaccine, we new at the outset that they were about 95% effective against the alpha strain. Even against the delta variant, we can see clearly that the vaccine is doing a great job of managing symptoms and minimizing the severity of the vaccine in those who have breakthrough infections. The ICUs are full again, and it's almost entirely people who are not vaccinated.

The tragic thing here is that some folks are looking desperately for a miracle cure, and are willing to inject de-worming medicine, or the latest is gargling iodine and betadine. But the vaccine does work. It functions as designed, and if people would just get vaccinated, it would literally create the herd immunity we need. It doesn't have to fix everything. It just needs to limit the number of severe cases to a manageable level, and stop or slow transmission to help avoid future mutant strains/

Some day, we should talk about how you guys have screwed up antibiotics, but that's a completely different conversation that has nothing to do with vaccines or viruses.
Who are "we"?
And who would "you guys" be?

Virus shield is simply one shot that has a broad spectrum. Not used on humans that I am aware of.
Why, I have no idea as is it cheaper and more efficient.

Wait, I just answered my own question.
 

Steve

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Who are "we"?
And who would "you guys" be?
We are the 70% or so of the country who are vaccinated. "you guys" are the victims of a pretty intense misinformation campaign that has politicized something that should be apolitical.

Virus shield is simply one shot that has a broad spectrum. Not used on humans that I am aware of.
Why, I have no idea as is it cheaper and more efficient.
Is that what you're talking about?

Wait, I just answered my own question.
Yeah, you did, but not in the way you think. You're all mixed up. You start by talking about antibiotics, then mush that up with vaccines, which leads you to some just incorrect conclusions. Then you start leaning on your experience with cattle, and then come back to realizing that they're apples and oranges. Which... you said someone else was doing.

You're all over the place here. And that's to be expected, because this misinformation just doesn't hold up to even the most casual scrutiny.
 

Steve

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Yeah, not all that surprising. Couple of notes. If you get it, and presuming you survive without long term ill effects, they still recommend the vaccine. That's mentioned in the article. Also, from the article
"The study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but doesnt take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point, says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. COVID-19 has already killed more than 4 million people worldwide and there are concerns that Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants are deadlier than the original virus."

This is kind of like polio. Reinfection of polio was very rare, and most kids who survived it were immune for the rest of their lives. They were also dealing with significant physical issues for the rest of their lives like paralysis. I see this as kind of like that. :)
 

granfire

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By in large this correct.
But what I also attempted to infer (not too well) was how grossly overstated the effectiveness of the covid vaccine was presented, particularly by politicians, the media, and particularly Fauci. It has been said to be an end all, be all fix by many. Blatantly not true.
To be clear, I have never had an issue with the medical community for the most part. And, as anyone who has lived in the era of the Flu should understand, viruses mutate.

I am on TCA and NCBA cattle boards. Resistance and mutation in antibiotics and virus shields are something that has been an issue for as long as I can remember. They ebb & flow (like in humans) but consistently are more of a problem with virus shields than antibiotics. Some of this is believed to come from the treatment and processing of grasses and hay.
So figuring out the source can be elegant and hard to trace. Mother nature is a a fickle bxxxxh.
well, we are not talking about antibiotics now, are we.
And American ignorance aside, the data from the world suggests otherwise.
Hospitalization numbers suggest the vaccines do work, at least keeping one out of the ICU for most parts.
As we are more or less successfully battle the plague here the data gets updated, and studies from Israel suggest that boosters 6-8 months in are a huge boon in fighting Delta
However, Lamba might not be affected.
I am not sure what you refer to by 'virus shield'
this is a component that mobilized the immune system without introducing the harmful components of the actual virus.
 

granfire

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Well, it's a shot... but that just means a liquid given by injection.

That is correct. You don't develop a resistance to vaccines. The virus can (and generally does) mutate so it's not as affected by the vaccine. So the vaccines are constantly being updated as new information comes in and new strains are found.

You are correct.

Urban myth. Nails, rusty or not, are irrelevant. You can get tetanus from any cut, if you're not vaccinated. Puncture wounds (again, regardless of the source) are more prone to infections in general. Unlike Covid, though, nobody has politicized tetanus shots. And most people are covered. So you'll look far and wide before you find an actual infection.

Current recommendations are to get a tetanus booster every 10 years, 5 if you get cut. We recommend don't. I tell people to pretend it's 2020, and get a booster every time the year ends in zero.
Was thinking faster than I typed, Of course it is a shot (DUH Gran....getting old)

The Tetanus was the example for boosters.
Or rather the rusty nail.
the tiny cuts are the sneaky ones, why you want the vaccines, the big cuts are the reminder to get a booster. (reminds me, 5 is my 0 unless I get cut beforehand)
 

granfire

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And BTW the original 1890 tetanus shot only lasted a few weeks. The latter vaccine of around the 1920's I believe is the same as the one used today. But you are arguing about something that had only about 500-600 cases in the 1940's post war. So again, not apples to apples.
Arguing for a vaccine that only needs a booster every 10 years (or as needed) versus every 10 month (or less) is, again, not apples to apples.
What is most surprising however is that the tetanus and diptheria vaccines appear to be beneficial in fighting covid. Go figure.

Ivermectin is used in cattle for internal parasites and external horn flies. The pour-on lasts about a month. Again, not apples to apples as most humans do not go around eating off the ground and nosing around in fly laden sxxt.
Based on the health checks and BSC meds for bovine pneumonia, blackleg, IBR, BVD, BVR (which are respiratory, sometimes causing diarrhea) and sometimes Lepto are given, purely on a case by case basis. Blackleg being an exception.

Do you put a fly & tick collar on your dog or cat? Ivermectin is the same protocol for cattle.
Well ivermectin does not do anything for COVID.
except maybe it takes the unvaccinated fools out of the gene pool.

Not sure why you are bringing flea and tick collars in the mi.
No, I don't buy them. the chemicals are too harsh, I do not want to expose myself or my pets to them.
Again, we are not talking about medication to cure a disease, we are looking at a vaccine to prevent it.
Since we are 'just' in year 2 of the pandemic, year 1 of the vaccine era, we do not know
a) if the 3rd booster gives an extended period of protection, like tetanus
b) how many variants the unvaccinated breed, forcing the science to play catch-up.

You are correct, a tomato is a fruit, but nope, don't toss it in the fruit salad.
 

Steve

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I am not sure what you refer to by 'virus shield'

As best as I can tell, "virus shield' is a brand name product used to protect cattle from a range of viruses, like colds, lepto, etc. I was confused at first, too. :)
 

Steve

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I'm a sucker for a Bond movie. Advance tickets just went on sale. Not sure when I'll be able to go see this, but looking forward to it.
 

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