Land your foot inside of your opponent's foot

Kung Fu Wang

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When you land your leading foot inside of your opponent's leading foot, your opponent can "scoop" your foot anytime he wants to. IMO, sometime people may put all their attention on their arms and not enough attention on their legs.

Your thought?

Taiji_PH_3.jpg



 
D

Dylan9d

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Depends how hard you hit them :D

If I'm standing in the range like on the first picture i'll be raining down blows on you non stop, don't think you will feel the need to scoop my foot.
 

drop bear

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that is standard for an authodox vs southpaw. As well.
 

Touch Of Death

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I'm thinking of all the crazy reversals, I can pull, if someone sweeps me from that position, but what if they know some of them? Will I choose the right one? :confused:
 

Gerry Seymour

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Only if they still control their center/structure. If I'm entering to that point, I'm either hitting or I'm getting an attachment to their center to break their structure. If I only set their weight on that foot (without accomplishing anything else), they can no longer sweep/scoop with it. If I shift their weight to the back foot quickly, they can't put any force into a sweep/scoop.

Then there's the question of whether the scoop would be a good idea. I'd need to play with someone who uses those to see what my reaction is, and which tools come out to play (or if it puts me at a disadvantage enough to be dangerous). A quick scoop (not a full sweep) might not be useful if I've put the foot there and already set enough weight to it, and might even give me an opening to take structure.
 

JowGaWolf

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When you land your leading foot inside of your opponent's leading foot, your opponent can "scoop" your foot anytime he wants to. IMO, sometime people may put all their attention on their arms and not enough attention on their legs.
It can go either way. I can scoop the person or the person can break my root. Either way your second statement is probably where the focus should be. "sometime people may put all their attention on their arms and not enough attention on their legs." I would change it to "most of the time." You are also correct that there is a risk of having that leading foot being scooped when it's inside your opponent's leading foot. While it's a risk, it's not a big risk for the reason of your first statement that people don't pay attention to their feet. This also means they won't pay attention to my foot inside of their leading foot. If the opponent is skilled in attacking the root, then the risk almost becomes a guarantee.

In my opinion, it's a dangerous position to be in if your opponent likes to destroy the root. It's a safe position to be in if your opponent sees and only cares about punching you in the face.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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it's a dangerous position to be in if your opponent likes to destroy the root.
When I was a kid, I was told that I should not walk

- in front of a cow, or
- behind a horse.

Of course the risk can be both ways. But if I don't have a horn like a cow, or strong leg like a horse has, I'll try to avoid those situation.
 

drop bear

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Only if they still control their center/structure. If I'm entering to that point, I'm either hitting or I'm getting an attachment to their center to break their structure. If I only set their weight on that foot (without accomplishing anything else), they can no longer sweep/scoop with it. If I shift their weight to the back foot quickly, they can't put any force into a sweep/scoop.

Then there's the question of whether the scoop would be a good idea. I'd need to play with someone who uses those to see what my reaction is, and which tools come out to play (or if it puts me at a disadvantage enough to be dangerous). A quick scoop (not a full sweep) might not be useful if I've put the foot there and already set enough weight to it, and might even give me an opening to take structure.

Thing is you will probably loose the striking if your foot is inside their foot like that position.

And it is easier to sweep a guy if you have just cracked a guy in the head.
 

JowGaWolf

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I'm thinking of all the crazy reversals, I can pull, if someone sweeps me from that position, but what if they know some of them? Will I choose the right one? :confused:
The danger about sweeps like at that range is that you'll never see it coming if it's done correctly. Your foot position would reduce your ability to see the sweep or scoop coming which is what makes it dangerous. A few months ago I showed a video of someone that I swept using the technique that the OP describes. Even though punches were coming in at me it didn't stop my ability to do the sweep. He never saw it coming.

It's not completely bad to have the foot inside of someone's lead leg as there are attacks that one can do from that position that are equally devastating.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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that is standard for an authodox vs southpaw. As well.
If you have left leg forward and I have right leg forward (mirror stance), when I move in my right foot on the right of your left foot, you can scoop me and I can't scoop you. Of course I can use my right leading leg to "spring" your left leading leg to your left if I can obtain proper hand control.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Depends how hard you hit them :D

If I'm standing in the range like on the first picture i'll be raining down blows on you non stop, don't think you will feel the need to scoop my foot.
It's all about "distance".

If your foot is inside of your opponent's foot 6 inch away. Assume you and your opponent have the same speed. When you punch from guard position and hit your fist on his face, your hand may have to travel 1 foot and 6 inch distance. Since your opponent's foot only have to move 6 inch, I will think your opponent's foot may destroy your balance before your fist can land on him.
 

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Thing is you will probably loose the striking if your foot is inside their foot like that position.

And it is easier to sweep a guy if you have just cracked a guy in the head.
It depends how I ended up there, I suppose. What I picture when I think of being there doesn't look much like the picture (I'm unlikely to be that wide when moving, for starters). If they moved as I did to put me in that position, then I'm probably striking as they are moving, and striking to take structure. If I can disrupt structure, I'm less likely to lose at that point. Otherwise, I probably entered to that spot because of a specific opening that was available, so I'm already taking structure when I get there.
 

Gerry Seymour

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It's all about "distance".

If your foot is inside of your opponent's foot 6 inch away. Assume you and your opponent have the same speed. When you punch from guard position and hit your fist on his face, your hand may have to travel 1 foot and 6 inch distance. Since your opponent's foot only have to move 6 inch, I will think your opponent's foot may destroy your balance before your fist can land on him.
That depends where their weight is at the beginning of the simultaneous movement. The hand has no weight to shift off, but the foot has to shed weight to the other foot before it can move to scoop, or it becomes a sacrifice move.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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That depends where their weight is at the beginning of the simultaneous movement. The hand has no weight to shift off, but the foot has to shed weight to the other foot before it can move to scoop, or it becomes a sacrifice move.
That sacrifice move is called "shin bite".

If you can use your shin bone to press down the inside of your opponent's leg, you will have advantage.

Chang_leg_seize.jpg
 

Gerry Seymour

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That sacrifice move is called "shin bite".

If you can use your shin bone to press down the inside of your opponent's leg, you will have advantage.

Chang_leg_seize.jpg
I wonder what effect that has if their weight is centered (in the picture, their weight is to the rear). It wouldn't have the same leverage, and would seem to provide opportunity for the opponent to take structure.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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I wonder what effect that has if their weight is centered (in the picture, their weight is to the rear). It wouldn't have the same leverage, and would seem to provide opportunity for the opponent to take structure.
The "shin bite" is a "door opening move". In CMA, a "door opening move" is a move that you try to use it to set up something else (like boxing jab). When you use "shin bite", you will expect your opponent to fight against you, or pull that leg back. You can then take advantage on his respond whatever that respond may be.
 

JowGaWolf

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I wonder what effect that has if their weight is centered (in the picture, their weight is to the rear). It wouldn't have the same leverage, and would seem to provide opportunity for the opponent to take structure.
it depends on which side you do it from. It's not a one size fits all. Sometimes one can do that move from the front and other times it needs to be done on the back of the leg. Another option is to apply a similar technique to the inside of the leg. While these are variations of the same concept, the end result will be the same: broken structure.
 

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it depends on which side you do it from. It's not a one size fits all. Sometimes one can do that move from the front and other times it needs to be done on the back of the leg. Another option is to apply a similar technique to the inside of the leg. While these are variations of the same concept, the end result will be the same: broken structure.
Someday when one or the other of us makes the short journey, I'll want you to show me some of those. I'm curious how I'd naturally react to them, and whether I'd recognize the pressure early enough to have a response.
 

drop bear

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If you have left leg forward and I have right leg forward (mirror stance), when I move in my right foot on the right of your left foot, you can scoop me and I can't scoop you. Of course I can use my right leading leg to "spring" your left leading leg to your left if I can obtain proper hand control.

Lets use outside and inside foot. I am getting confused.

But the outside foot is mostly going to be the better sweep unless you do some sort off massive inner reap.

The outside foot also negates his cross while helping yours.
 

drop bear

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I wonder what effect that has if their weight is centered (in the picture, their weight is to the rear). It wouldn't have the same leverage, and would seem to provide opportunity for the opponent to take structure.

It is a fifty fifty like an arm drag. The person in the better position will win.
 
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