Lack of respect---bothersome???

[RRouuselot]

.................
What you have to realize, people are mislead. And in the early 70's, moreso than today. I was such a person. Many people back then were mislead my orientals because of the loook and sterotyping associated with martial arts. I am not going to state, that I didnt learn some methods and routines from him. Such as the routines, that I have not seen, so far, in other schools.

But a forum such as this can educate people that are now coming into it. Don't you think that I feel humilated being mislead? Why would you, continue to bash/nsult me? Bash the siutation or that one particular man whom taught me.

Oh, I see now you want to play the “victim” and claim you were possibly mislead when you are confronted with some discrepancies in your story by someone that actually might know whether what you are saying is real or not.

How many times have I seen this on these forums.

Bash/ Insult you? Nope, haven't done that.
Discredit you? Yes I have.
Amazingly you defended your position until you were shown certain facts and then claimed you were possibly a “victim”.



I have always said if I post anything that is wrong feel free to correct me.

 

[47MartialMan]

Oh, I see now you want to play the “victim” and claim you were possibly mislead when you are confronted with some discrepancies in your story by someone that actually might know whether what you are saying is real or not. How many times have I seen this on these forums.

I am not playing victim. I welcome the confrontation. I dont welcome the insult from someone whom does not know me or what I have been through.

How old are you?

 

[RRouuselot]

I am not playing victim. I welcome the confrontation. I dont welcome the insult from someone whom does not know me or what I have been through.

I comment on what is posted just like everyone else here I was unaware that we all had to meet before we could comment on each others posts.

 

[47MartialMan]

So upon you not knowing me, and that I stated the situation, you had to insult me.

Is there a problem with many Japanese stylists and/or those in Japan whom think they have not/nevered been mislead, fall victim to gullibility or conned?

I had asked how old you in relation to your age in the 70's and such misleading was rampart, especially in the US.

 

[47MartialMan]

Discredit you? Yes I have.

But you didnt discredit me. Perhaps that particular man I had studied from. Which, without having studied from him, attempt to discredit his ability. You do insult be by calling me a liar and fabricator.

I have always said if I post anything that is wrong feel free to correct me.

How can one correct one that has his own mind set on that they want to interpret?

Speaking of fabrication, I sent a email with a attached pic, to you of another instructor that I had whom seemed this way.

I had sent it to:
[email protected]

 

[Michael Billings]

You have been asked to return to topic by one of the Moderators. You are ignoring this and continue what I consider to be fraud busting, thereby hijacking the thread and going from a general topic to a specific, and being in attack-mode. Come on guys. Please start a new thread on this before one of us has to take this official.

Thanks,
-Michael

 

[47MartialMan]

Thanks Mike,

I am going to resume/re-examine the orignal post;

Growing up with the arts, back in the early 80's (has it been that long?-- Aargh!), there seemed to be the sentiment of respect by the general public for those who studied the martial arts. When they would find out you'd get the raised eyebrow look, and silent response or nod. Slowly, through the years, I noticed that the arts became kind of a joke, or something to be not taken seriously. Respect to all!

Back in mid to late 70's, many thought it was the coolest thing to slice bread. However, elders of that era, did not like it. They did not like things "foreign" to them. This is strange, for be it a Amercian or US citizen, we are foriegners in a land (except Native Indians)

I remember my father, showing expressions and words of disgust towards my mother, whom was trying to convince him to let me remain in martial arts. In the beginning he was against it, but later, when I started to learn from a black man, his response was that I needed to learn form a Asian. Typical of racial sterotyping.

However, I was no different in the beginning, accepting instruction (blindl and not researching their personal information) from any Oriental that was teaching. I could use the excuse of youthful ignorance, but it is embarassing to admit that I was gullable.

The local community is starting to give respect to martial artists. For such as I and one other martial art instructor (not related to my style/system/teaching), have been "giving" back. I do not do it for recogniton or promotion (which I feel at times is his agenda based upon he having a school and pass out flyers and such info after each community "free" event)

As a community service, I give free self defense instruction and even after those classes, I teach low-income kids, martial arts-for free. One of many things that was instilled into me by all, but one of my former teachers, was generousity. And of those, whom had not charged me for lessons also.

So, if we can have others give to communties and help educate in a manner such as this, perhaps the respect could be spread.

 

[bdparsons]

Concerning the original question:

My opinion is that society (in the U.S. at least) has over the years come to view martial arts as just another hobby someone is "into". I think there are various reasons for this, most coming from how martial arts are presented by martial artists themselves. We've kinda made our own bed and now are being forced to lie in it.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[CaffeineKing]

Back to the original question, 47MartialMan does make a valid point in that here in the UK, martial arts schools are appearing in community telephone lists and all the rest of it. Self-defence classes (see another post of mine), etc.

But I continue to state that for most people, martial arts are a hobby. An enjoyable one and a fufilling one but you could say that about competitive chess. No doubt there are people here you have gone further and made martial arts their life endevour - and I wish you well as I'm only a dabbler - but again, you can say that about a chess Grandmaster too. Alas, respect is earned. It's much easier to respect someone for their commitment to the martial arts if you study martial arts and are aware of what is involved. All these people who hop into Karate Kid poses and make the funny noises don't know what is involved. Therefore, they *can't* respect you for your achievements. I'm a psychologist and everytime I'm asked at a party what I do - I hate it. I *always* get the "Do you know what I'm thinking then?" or something to that effect. I simply have to deal with it.

Still, we've got this board for a good old whinge, eh? ;-)

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Unfortunately, the only exposure most people get to martial arts is through:

1. Bruce Lee as this cartoonish stereotype who screamed like a cat half the time

2. The martial artist as this unbeatable warrior incapable of human emotion

3. The nine year old black belts promoted by less than reputable schools to promote the idea that everyone can do martial arts.

As a result, many people have this perception of martial arts as either impossibly difficult or a waste of their time. But keep in mind, for many years the perception of America outside this country was that all of us were cowboys (Thank you John Huston and Ronald Reagan!). So it goes both ways.

You really hate Bruce Lee dont you?

Though I agree with your idea as this person being the unbeatable warrior. Ive noticed especially at schools that if your a black belt then your considered hard but still get mocked??? What with that? Shows people ignorance. As soon as you dont have a grading system your automaticly not a real MA either?

 

[47MartialMan]

Back to the original question, 47MartialMan does make a valid point in that here in the UK, martial arts schools are appearing in community telephone lists and all the rest of it. Self-defence classes (see another post of mine), etc.

But I continue to state that for most people, martial arts are a hobby. An enjoyable one and a fufilling one but you could say that about competitive chess. No doubt there are people here you have gone further and made martial arts their life endevour - and I wish you well as I'm only a dabbler - but again, you can say that about a chess Grandmaster too. Alas, respect is earned. It's much easier to respect someone for their commitment to the martial arts if you study martial arts and are aware of what is involved. All these people who hop into Karate Kid poses and make the funny noises don't know what is involved. Therefore, they *can't* respect you for your achievements. I'm a psychologist and everytime I'm asked at a party what I do - I hate it. I *always* get the "Do you know what I'm thinking then?" or something to that effect. I simply have to deal with it.

Still, we've got this board for a good old whinge, eh? ;-)

Yes, I have to agree it is a hobby for many. The drop out rate is astonishing. I have many friends/acquaintences whom have commercial schools and we talk about the drop out rate. (Strange as I teach privately, my rate of drop out is less) Moreso, after someone reaches the "coveted black belt". This standard has been set like a high school diploma, once it has been achieved, "schools out". (To quote a Alice Cooper song-oops, my age is showing) This perhaps why many commercial schools charge so much for the lessons and testing.

Strange, of those who practice it, that had dropped out prior to black belt, are some of the ones whom ridicule it.

But I guess with anything, as I somewhat stated before, comes ridicule.

I must say, in response to Caffeine King (I like this name), that I was once reserved about speaking of martial arts at gahterings. Almost like in denial.

This had ceased as those around me know I am a martial artist. As far as events/parties go, these are generally ones whom I am familiar with everyone there also (most everyone).

I had learned a long tine ago to tolerate and at times, roll with the humor, making jestering remarks and actions the same as others. One has to look at things from a differnt perspective and let the understanding of why things are, and strengthen one's charecter. Thus not and allowing one to not be intimidated by certain trivial things.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I don't hate Bruce Lee; I do think he's overrated. But let's face it. Bruce Lee presented this cartoonish stereotype of martial arts to the world of a screaming badly dubbed actor beating a roomful of people. I'm not saying he didn't have some valid ideas, but your average guy off the street knows nothing about that. He only knows what he sees in the movies. Hasn't "Bruce Lee" more or less become the pejorative we give to someone who practices martial arts?
If you can get away from "crane technique", Mr. Miyagi remains my model of a martial arts representative.
1. Master of karate yet humble
2. Honestly cared about Daniel, especially knowing his home situation.
3. Never used karate to enrich himself
4. Never bragged about knowing karate. When Daniel asked him why he never told him, Miyagi simply replied "You never asked." How many students talk about martial arts at any opportunity? Especially the ones who are not very good?
5. Never responded to taunts.

As for belts, different systems have different requirements. But even kung fu uses sashes. Whenever I hear about some system or instructor that doesn't use a ranking system, it always reminds me of hippie teachers who don't believe in grades or levels because it is bad for students' self esteem.

 

[47MartialMan]

I don't hate Bruce Lee; I do think he's overrated. Hasn't "Bruce Lee" more or less become the pejorative we give to someone who practices martial arts?

Bruce Lee isnt the only martial art subject overated. Look at Shaolin. Shaolin is just as culpable.

As for belts, different systems have different requirements. But even kung fu uses sashes. Whenever I hear about some system or instructor that doesn't use a ranking system, it always reminds me of hippie teachers who don't believe in grades or levels because it is bad for students' self esteem.

Given that Kung Fu wasnt about achieveing ranking status, but individualize skill (gung fu); The notion of rank curtailed Karate systems. I don't particulary like Kung Fu that has to award sashes, and colored one simulating Karate. It makes them seem no longer unique.

 

[Tgace]

http://uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/evolution_of_martial_arts_politi.htm
http://trumpeter.athabascau.ca/content/v10.4/ishiyama.html

 

[47MartialMan]

http://uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/evolution_of_martial_arts_politi.htm
http://trumpeter.athabascau.ca/content/v10.4/ishiyama.html

Those were some interesting writings.

Tgace, may I have you check one I had found:

http://www.spiritualminds.com/articles.asp?articleid=2021

 

[Michael Billings]

Good job getting things back on track guys.

The JKD guys I know have the greatest respect for other arts. They are Inosanto line guys, and follow the traditional greeting/closing of the Filipino culture. Now they do work out in shorts and T-shirts, and don't bow onto the mat. But they walk the walk and talk the talk when it comes to banging full contact, grappling, or full contact stick fighting.

They may not defer as more traditional arts do, but they respect where they came from, and Bruce Lee is a part of that.

-Michael

 

[RRouuselot]

Good job getting things back on track guys.

The JKD guys I know have the greatest respect for other arts. They are Inosanto line guys, and follow the traditional greeting/closing of the Filipino culture. Now they do work out in shorts and T-shirts, and don't bow onto the mat. But they walk the walk and talk the talk when it comes to banging full contact, grappling, or full contact stick fighting.

They may not defer as more traditional arts do, but they respect where they came from, and Bruce Lee is a part of that.

-Michael

It’s been my experience that dojo or schools that bang away full contact tend to have more respect for each other than ones that don’t do full contact. This doesn’t come out of fear but more of the mind set that they take it as good as they give it.

I have found that schools/styles that don’t do full contact talk a good game of respect but it seems more perfunctory than sincere.

Just my observation.....

 

[47MartialMan]

Good job getting things back on track guys.

The JKD guys I know have the greatest respect for other arts. They are Inosanto line guys, and follow the traditional greeting/closing of the Filipino culture. Now they do work out in shorts and T-shirts, and don't bow onto the mat. But they walk the walk and talk the talk when it comes to banging full contact, grappling, or full contact stick fighting.

They may not defer as more traditional arts do, but they respect where they came from, and Bruce Lee is a part of that.

-Michael

Thanks Mike,

I am as guilty as anyone losing track of a thread.

I guess respect can only be earned if one giving it has a full understanding of the subject that should deserve it.

And any martial art, full contact or not, has the issue of respect. Every martial art has something to teach or instill.