Lack of respect---bothersome???

[RRouuselot]

All you guys say is true, but in the end its far more important to earn respect for the type of person you are outside the dojo than it is to worry about people respecting your martial arts prowess.

Right on the money!

I stopped telling Japanese people I did Karate or any kind of MA. There first remark was always the same “kawai!” = “scary!”. I am a bit bigger than most Japanese so my size combined with training must have just intimidated them. They also never failed to mention when introducing me to other Japanese.

Contrary to popular belief most Japanese are totally clueless as to what Karate really is.

Their attitude made me feel more like a thug than a MA person so I stopped mentioning it unless I was talking to a Japanese MA person.

I let them figure who I really am before they “profile” me as some type of gangster.

 

[RRouuselot]

Yeah, but imagine far worse like living in the Middle East, India, Asia, etc., and see dead bodies all over being picked on by birds and other parasites.

I have seen stuff like and worse while traveling through Asia…..you get used to it. It may sound pretty cold but after a while you become used to most things.

Things like seeing 10 and 12 year old hookers, dead bodies that lay unclaimed in the street, etc.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Right on the money!

I stopped telling Japanese people I did Karate or any kind of MA. There first remark was always the same “kawai!” = “scary!”. I am a bit bigger than most Japanese so my size combined with training must have just intimidated them. They also never failed to mention when introducing me to other Japanese.

Contrary to popular belief most Japanese are totally clueless as to what Karate really is.

Their attitude made me feel more like a thug than a MA person so I stopped mentioning it unless I was talking to a Japanese MA person.

I let them figure who I really am before they “profile” me as some type of gangster.

That's the way it is in Korea as well. Many American Tae Kwon Do students think all Koreans know and love Tae Kwon Do. Nope. Attitude is the same as you described. Clueless fascination combined with fear. Many Koreans actually have a negative attitude toward young Tae Kwon Do black belts, thinking them no more than thugs and gang members (because they can fight). It is only when you reach the higher levels of the art does the attitude change.
Really, the attitude toward martial arts in the Orient is the same as it is here-ignorant fascination combined with fear based on not understanding.

 

[Ceicei]

That's the way it is in Korea as well. Many American Tae Kwon Do students think all Koreans know and love Tae Kwon Do. Nope. Attitude is the same as you described. Clueless fascination combined with fear. Many Koreans actually have a negative attitude toward young Tae Kwon Do black belts, thinking them no more than thugs and gang members (because they can fight). It is only when you reach the higher levels of the art does the attitude change.
Really, the attitude toward martial arts in the Orient is the same as it is here-ignorant fascination combined with fear based on not understanding.

Also true of the Chinese. I went on a trip with a group and there was a man who came from China that joined our group. One of my friends, in jest, brought up martial arts. He looked at him with that expression. It was one of those oops moment, I guess. My friend tried to lighten up by saying something like, "Oh, so I made a stereotype". A little teasing/discussion continued about various cultural stereotypes.

The point being that most Chinese aren't really into martial arts. I thought that was interesting...

- Ceicei

 

[CaffeineKing]

I used to have a Scottish flatmate. he's a great bloke - and Scottish through and through - he just happens to be of Chinese descent. He was born and bred - and proud of being born - in Fife. However, almost everyone he met assumed that: (a) he worked in a Chinese restaurant; (b) he was an expert at Kung Fu; and (c) that he was in a Triad gang. Annoying for him, to say the least(!)

Going by the earlier stuff in the thread, I'd just like to repeat the point that being a martial artist doesn't deserve respect. Not by itself. Having a gun doesn't grant you respect either. It just scares people. But if you study the "fighting" arts, gain the self-esteem that comes from that without slipping over into arrogance, than you've a remarkably good shot at that assured, self-confident air that people *can* respect. That goes for many other sports and pastimes too, btw. Self-worth is a wonderful thing.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Ironically, I was going to ask my GM about the attitude in Korea toward Tae Kwon Do in general. I was curious about how native Koreans felt about the martial art founded in their country. Guess I don't have to now!

 

[Hand Sword]

I would agree that just because you study the arts you deserve respect, lord knows there are tons of so called artists that, as far as being a person goes, suck. That attitude was also part of the bigger problem, that I was referring to, when I started this thread. As I said then, maybe I'm just getting cranky, but, after a long time of the foolishness, and seeing it get worse through the years, I was just fed up, and felt the need to spout off a bit. I would like to see the commercialism go, or at least the perception of commercialism go. We have and are continuing to lose the great path makers and pioneers of the martial art world, and I don't want to see what I love and truly care about become an irreversable joke.

Respect to everyone of my martial art brothers and sisters, be safe!!

 

[Tony]

The only people who know i do Kung fu are my closest family members and friends. I don't go round wearing my uniform in public nor do i openly talk about it at work. There is too much risk of people either maing silly jokes and noises and wanting to challenge me to see how good i am. Luckily i have never had my skills tested but I woudl like to think if i needed to defend myself the other person would be in for a nasty shock!

I have seen so many martial artists wearing their uniforms out in public which really is asking for trouble. Maybe people with egos who feel that they can imtimidate people who would even dare to try to start with them or maybe they think they are using it as some deterrant like some kind of armour but you may as well have a big sign saying ' come and beat the snot out of me'.

Another thing is people always either on purpose or by mistake confuse kung fu for either karate or judo or whatever other Art they have heard off. I guess a lot of people don;t believe in the effectiveness of Kung fu because other Arts like Taekwondo are better marketed and are a lot popular. THere are many people who study Martial Arts who have no understanding of Arts like Kung fu and have complete misconceptions and discredit it as useless or saying some of its techniques are too girly. This is why we need to have respect and have an open mind. As bruce Lee said have an empty cup!

 

[Hand Sword]

You're absolutely right! In general I made this thread from the view point of martial artist looking at the outsider's views of us, and what we do. The healing should definitely come from the inside of our world first if we ever hope to change all misconceptions. The bickering of our martial family shouldn't even occur, since we are all brought along, supposedly being taught to respect others. Popular doesn't mean better, and since our american martial art pioneers eventually found their way to the kung fu systems to help blaze the trail, and complete them as artists, the chinese systems better not be looked down upon. I remeber an intervue that I read in a magazine years ago, that puts it best. It was a karate expert talking about a time when he and his master were in china and witnessed a "kung fu" demo. His master was slamming the kung fu as being weak and wasteful, lacking focus. When the kung fu guy asked for a volunteer, the karate master obliged, thinking he would show him! The karate master moved with one strike, the kung fu made a weak, girly, wasteful, circular block, and shattered the karate master's arm in 3 places, incapcitating him.

 

[47MartialMan]

Lack of respect also stems from lack of courtesy and understanding.

 

[Hand Sword]

Yeah, supposed qualities that are taught and re-enforced in the martial arts, along with --------------what was it?------------oh yeah!------HUMILITY!

 

[47MartialMan]

Yeah, supposed qualities that are taught and re-enforced in the martial arts, along with --------------what was it?------------oh yeah!------HUMILITY!

yeah-I forgot that one

 

[Hand Sword]

Sadly, I think a lot of us have. Could that be a big cause of the lack of respect going on in the world, in general, not just our world? When I was a kid, and would meet other artists, at tournaments, or, whatever, we had a more open willingness to share, and talk honestly. We used to comment, that at least in the martial arts, we were free of the politics, as we were all equal---AAH! The fantasies of children!

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Contrary to popular belief most Japanese are totally clueless as to what Karate really is.

Their attitude made me feel more like a thug than a MA person so I stopped mentioning it unless I was talking to a Japanese MA person.

I let them figure who I really am before they “profile” me as some type of gangster.

A relative of mine moved to Japan and married a Japanese girl. They visited here last year and he told her I studied karate, and she said to me, "I am embarrassed!" I asked her why, and she said, "Because I think I should know more about that being from Japan. I should do that, but I don't." She definitely knew nothing about it in particular, but she seemed almost to find irony in the fact that I did being that I'm from the US, but at the same time she was sincere and respectful of what I do and not mocking or anything negative, and I didn't get the "are you a gangster? feeling" from her thankfully.

Actually I think I was more embarrassed, because like TonyI almost never tell anyone that I meet that I study, except here in cyberspace! :ultracool I was at my school one day working out with a couple of friends and my neighbor walked into the school to inquire about classes for her son. She was shocked to see me there, because she had no idea I studied, and my one friend was shocked that my neighbor had no idea I studied. His reaction made me laugh. :rofl:

Hand Sword you make some great points about respect and the irony of the lack of tolerance that sometimes exists between people who study different styles! :asian: Thanks for sharing your views...

MJ

 

[47MartialMan]

Not everyone from a country such as Japan, China, etc., actually practice or know about homeland martial arts.

 

[RRouuselot]

…………….and she said to me, "I am embarrassed!" I asked her why, and she said,

1)[font=&quot] [/font]"Because I think I should know more about that being from Japan. I should do that, but I don't."

2)[font=&quot] [/font]She definitely knew nothing about it in particular, but she seemed almost to find irony in the fact that I did being that I'm from the US, but at the same time she was sincere and respectful of what I do and not mocking or anything negative, and

3)[font=&quot] [/font]I didn't get the "are you a gangster? feeling" from her thankfully.

Actually I think I was more embarrassed, because like TonyI almost never tell anyone that I meet that I study, except here in cyberspace! :ultracoolI was at my school one day working out with a couple of friends and my neighbor walked into the school to inquire about classes for her son. She was shocked to see me there, because she had no idea I studied, and my one friend was shocked that my neighbor had no idea I studied. His reaction made me laugh. :rofl:

Hand Sword you make some great points about respect and the irony of the lack of tolerance that sometimes exists between people who study different styles! :asian:Thanks for sharing your views...

MJ

1)[font=&quot] [/font]It never fails to crack me up when Japanese think karate is part of their “National Cultural Heritage”. Karate is Okinawan……it was developed when Okinawa was an independent country from Japan. Okinawans and Japanese are genetically different, not to mention culturally. I just came back from another trip from Okinawa and on several occasions some of the locals commented to my Japanese wife…”Oh, you are Japanese aren’t you?”. My wife thought this was kind of strange because she was under the impression they were from the same country. A good book to read on Okinawan life style and culture is “The Okinawan Program”.

2)[font=&quot] [/font] Not a big surprise there. Most Japanese don’t know squat about their own culture especially martial culture. Baseball, soccer and golf are more popular than MA are.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]I doubt you would since you are a girl. Being a 6’2” 225lbs gaijin male in a land where the average male height is around 5’8”/165 lbs. I kind of stick out and look a bit more “aggressive” than a female would. However, when most people in Japan think of karate they usually say “Kyokushin” since it is the most popular “brand” in Japan and has a tendency to be “gang related”. I posted an article in the Karate Forum that mentions this.

 

[47MartialMan]

Not a big surprise there. Most Japanese don’t know squat about their own culture especially martial culture. Baseball, soccer and golf are more popular than MA are.
Yes-one of my ionstructors is from there. The younger generation embraces Amercianism.

Martial arts are "old hat"

 

[RRouuselot]

Yes-one of my ionstructors is from there.
1) The younger generation embraces Amercianism.
Martial arts are "old hat"

Really? what makes you think so?

 

[47MartialMan]

Really? what makes you think so?

Not saying that "all" youngster are like that. The kids in his family hardly a interest in the "family art".

 

[RRouuselot]

Not saying that "all" youngster are like that. The kids in his family hardly a interest in the "family art".

I see. What is his "family art"?