La Pluma....
- Thread starter Bammx2
- Start date
It's a type of "block" - I learned it in the Inosanto-blend ( its from Kali Illustrisimo or the Villabrille system I think)
Imagine you are holding a pen & writing - now basically raise your hand up so that your forearm is vertical - tilt your wrist toward your shoulder & imagine the pen is now 28 inches long... LOL
Thats the basic idea, but its kinda hard to explain it (as most techniques are) in just words...
anyway, this is how I learned it - there may be, and probably are, other ways/methods...
Hope this helps
Rob
Imagine you are holding a pen & writing - now basically raise your hand up so that your forearm is vertical - tilt your wrist toward your shoulder & imagine the pen is now 28 inches long... LOL
Thats the basic idea, but its kinda hard to explain it (as most techniques are) in just words...
anyway, this is how I learned it - there may be, and probably are, other ways/methods...
Hope this helps
Rob
lhommedieu
Black Belt
Kalis Illustrisimo
I've seen it done as an initial parry with the live hand against an overhead forehand strike (like a pass); the "shield" part occurs just after the parry and appears to be a way of monitoring the opponent's weapon on the way to a counter. Or it "shield" part can be a cut to the forearm almost simultaneous to the pass with the live hand...
Best,
Steve
I've seen it done as an initial parry with the live hand against an overhead forehand strike (like a pass); the "shield" part occurs just after the parry and appears to be a way of monitoring the opponent's weapon on the way to a counter. Or it "shield" part can be a cut to the forearm almost simultaneous to the pass with the live hand...
Best,
Steve
OP
OP
Bammx2
2nd Black Belt
I may have spoke to soon.....
I think I may need to actually see how the other styles use this move.
So far,the way I was shown was to use it as a block,as in a diagonal shield.
As I was shown,we'll go with stick in right hand,the right forearm would be vertical with the upper arm horizontal and the stick at a downward angle towards the shoulder.
It forms a type of triangle with the hand/stick being the pinnacle and the the forearm and stick being the sides and upper arm being the base.
This is of course blocking an attack to angle 2.
make sense?
I think I may need to actually see how the other styles use this move.
So far,the way I was shown was to use it as a block,as in a diagonal shield.
As I was shown,we'll go with stick in right hand,the right forearm would be vertical with the upper arm horizontal and the stick at a downward angle towards the shoulder.
It forms a type of triangle with the hand/stick being the pinnacle and the the forearm and stick being the sides and upper arm being the base.
This is of course blocking an attack to angle 2.
make sense?
lhommedieu
Black Belt
You're right about the shape of the arm/stick. The difference in application (and terminologies) has to do with the angle against which you're defending. Let's assume that the attack is with the right hand and comes at a downward angle:
If it's a backhand, then there IS a point at which force meets force (due to opposing angles) but the oppenent's weapon will slide off your weapon as it is heading downward anyway. But you may need to reinforce your weapon by checking the hand or wrist or forearm - or you may need to collapse your weapon slightly and "ride" the force of the opponent's stick down - or you may need to buttress the end of your weapon against your shoulder. These are all variations of the same movement that end up differently due to slight changes in speed, or angle, or force of the attack.
BUT
If it's a forehand, then the point at which force meets force is actually quite incidental as the angle of your weapon is almost the same as the angle of your opponent's weapon; you don't need to reinforce or control the opponent's weapon so much as just get out of its way while maintaining a covering stucture. Passing the opponent's weapon with your live hand allows you to guide it into the structure.
In both cases, your footwork allows you to zone away from the angle of attack in the case of an angle 2 attack, toward the angle of attack in the case of an angle 1 attack (but you meld with the movement and contol it).
It's really your angling and footwork that allow you to do this - and I think that if you think of the stick as a blade the actual application is to the wrist or forearm of the opponent.
All this is of course "theoretically" - the best laid plans of mice and men etc.
The 3-part series of Kalis Illustrisimo with Tatang Illustrisimo, Tony Diego, et. al. has several examples of "Pluma": these are done against an overhead forehand attack. PM me and I'll send you some windows media examples.
Best,
Steve
If it's a backhand, then there IS a point at which force meets force (due to opposing angles) but the oppenent's weapon will slide off your weapon as it is heading downward anyway. But you may need to reinforce your weapon by checking the hand or wrist or forearm - or you may need to collapse your weapon slightly and "ride" the force of the opponent's stick down - or you may need to buttress the end of your weapon against your shoulder. These are all variations of the same movement that end up differently due to slight changes in speed, or angle, or force of the attack.
BUT
If it's a forehand, then the point at which force meets force is actually quite incidental as the angle of your weapon is almost the same as the angle of your opponent's weapon; you don't need to reinforce or control the opponent's weapon so much as just get out of its way while maintaining a covering stucture. Passing the opponent's weapon with your live hand allows you to guide it into the structure.
In both cases, your footwork allows you to zone away from the angle of attack in the case of an angle 2 attack, toward the angle of attack in the case of an angle 1 attack (but you meld with the movement and contol it).
It's really your angling and footwork that allow you to do this - and I think that if you think of the stick as a blade the actual application is to the wrist or forearm of the opponent.
All this is of course "theoretically" - the best laid plans of mice and men etc.
The 3-part series of Kalis Illustrisimo with Tatang Illustrisimo, Tony Diego, et. al. has several examples of "Pluma": these are done against an overhead forehand attack. PM me and I'll send you some windows media examples.
Best,
Steve
As the strike comes in, loosen your grip so the palm opens up. The point of your weapon should drop while the “live hand” parries the opponent’s weapon hand in a downward motion catching the attack between your live hand and your weapon. The downward parry is used to create opposite energies much like the seesaw effect. So as you push the attacking hand down, your weapon rolls over for the counter.
As Steve pointed out, KI uses the same principles & motion for variations of the pluma. Against a highline forehand it is seen as a deflection while against a lowline, it is used like the above. To simply negate the momentum or energy of the attack and ride over for the counter.
Yours in the Arts,
John G. Jacobo
www.swacom.com
As Steve pointed out, KI uses the same principles & motion for variations of the pluma. Against a highline forehand it is seen as a deflection while against a lowline, it is used like the above. To simply negate the momentum or energy of the attack and ride over for the counter.
Yours in the Arts,
John G. Jacobo
www.swacom.com
Steve, Tim, & John...
Thanks for helping him out more in depth than I could. The system I have been focusing on for the last (almost) 4 years does not use those types of blocks, so I was just going from memory.
Was I fairly close to explaining it correctly? :idunno:
see ya
Rob
Thanks for helping him out more in depth than I could. The system I have been focusing on for the last (almost) 4 years does not use those types of blocks, so I was just going from memory.
Was I fairly close to explaining it correctly? :idunno:
see ya
Rob
lhommedieu
Black Belt
lhommedieu
Black Belt
DoxN4cer said:
You mean that you teach "upward figure eight" as the "form" and use "pluma" or something similar as the application? That makes sense.
Best,
Steve
Hi Guys
A very interesting topic, and one that facinates me.
As a student of Master Yuli Romo, I stand in awe of his use of pluma. This is certainly not purely a block or deflection. Master Yuli defended against all strikes and thrusts, used the structure of pluma to execute very explosive disarms and also used it at very close range as a cover. This coupled with the very fast (and very painful) striking actions from the 'pluma ' position make it a very useful and dangerous technique. The pluma grip can also beapplied to the reverse grip, or with a bladed weapon.
I have found that adopting this position during sparring can confuse some people as they are less able to judge the length of the weapon.
Is this where the expression, " The pen is mightier than the sword!" comes from.
Yours in FMA
Peter Lewis
www.yuli-romo.com
www.romo-ilustrisimo.co.uk
A very interesting topic, and one that facinates me.
As a student of Master Yuli Romo, I stand in awe of his use of pluma. This is certainly not purely a block or deflection. Master Yuli defended against all strikes and thrusts, used the structure of pluma to execute very explosive disarms and also used it at very close range as a cover. This coupled with the very fast (and very painful) striking actions from the 'pluma ' position make it a very useful and dangerous technique. The pluma grip can also beapplied to the reverse grip, or with a bladed weapon.
I have found that adopting this position during sparring can confuse some people as they are less able to judge the length of the weapon.
Is this where the expression, " The pen is mightier than the sword!" comes from.
Yours in FMA
Peter Lewis
www.yuli-romo.com
www.romo-ilustrisimo.co.uk
DoxN4cer
Purple Belt
lhommedieu said:
10-4, Steve.
I use a conceptual approach where there is a core of basic patterns of
motion (gross motor movements). These motions are then dissected and
refined into various applications (defensive and offensive). This method
of teaching works well for me, and IMHO speeds up the learning/skill building
process dramatically.
r/
Tim Kashino
lhommedieu
Black Belt
Peter wrote:
That sounds interesting. Two questions: (1) is "Pluma" generally accompanied by a check or pass with the live hand - to guide the opponent's stick (or arm) into your weapon? (2) I can see how "Pluma" works against high line strikes and low backhand strikes, and also against palm-up thrusts - but what about low-line forehand strikes and palm-down thrusts? Are these passed through the centerline first by the live hand?
Re. "Teaching formal structures first and then applications:" I think that's an excellent way to teach. I think that most amarra could be understood in this way.
Best,
Steve
peter said:
That sounds interesting. Two questions: (1) is "Pluma" generally accompanied by a check or pass with the live hand - to guide the opponent's stick (or arm) into your weapon? (2) I can see how "Pluma" works against high line strikes and low backhand strikes, and also against palm-up thrusts - but what about low-line forehand strikes and palm-down thrusts? Are these passed through the centerline first by the live hand?
Re. "Teaching formal structures first and then applications:" I think that's an excellent way to teach. I think that most amarra could be understood in this way.
Best,
Steve
L
Logan Delizo
Guest
Here is a video clip of some guys executing blocking drills. One of the blocks they perform is called a wing block, which is also refered to as a Pluma.
http://www.smakstiks.com/video/block.wmv
Hope this helps,
Logan Delizo
http://www.smakstiks.com/video/block.wmv
Hope this helps,
Logan Delizo
Hi Steve
The pluma technique is often accompanied by a parry with the alive hand, but not necessarily into the defender's weapon. i.e the pluma doesn't need to touch the opponent or their weapon, but could be used to reposition oneself ready for a counter.
Against a low forehand strike, the weapon held in pluma can be used to parry across to the outside, often used in conjunction with 'lutang' or floating footwork. This is effectively like a low 'kadena real' technique. To get the right range, it is most likely that the arm would be parried. The alive hand could support this by engaging in the parry once past centreline. The pluma could then open out to strike at the opponent's right open side, assuming a right handed attack. A low palm down thrust would be similar, but the weapon may be parried instead of the arm.
All in all, pluma is a very versa;ile technique and can be used for offfense and defence.
Hope this helps Steve.
Yours in FMA
Peter
The pluma technique is often accompanied by a parry with the alive hand, but not necessarily into the defender's weapon. i.e the pluma doesn't need to touch the opponent or their weapon, but could be used to reposition oneself ready for a counter.
Against a low forehand strike, the weapon held in pluma can be used to parry across to the outside, often used in conjunction with 'lutang' or floating footwork. This is effectively like a low 'kadena real' technique. To get the right range, it is most likely that the arm would be parried. The alive hand could support this by engaging in the parry once past centreline. The pluma could then open out to strike at the opponent's right open side, assuming a right handed attack. A low palm down thrust would be similar, but the weapon may be parried instead of the arm.
All in all, pluma is a very versa;ile technique and can be used for offfense and defence.
Hope this helps Steve.
Yours in FMA
Peter
