five swords blocking question

[JamesB]

Hi all,
I've had a thought which I hope we can discuss:

I'm doing five-swords with two blocks: a right inward+downward hammerfist (block) to the inside of the attacker's right shoulder area, and a left block to the inner wrist/forearm area.

I'm happy with the first of the two blocks (i.e the right inward), but I am wondering about the left block with my "rear" arm. As I see it, the left hand could either execute an outward-extended block, or a left inward block. That is, the left arm could circle inwards+outwards for an outward-extended, or could circle outward+inward for an inward block, effectively mirroring the action of my right arm. I find it preferable to execute a left-inward here because the symmetry makes it easier for me.

In both cases the left block ends up in the same position, striking the same area on the attacker's forearm. And I'm guessing that the method used to get there very likely has a knock-on effect as to the final strength/integrity of that block.

I guess the discussions could go down the route of covering/checking concepts, but I'd prefer if possible to talk about the mechanics of that left block.

Any takers?

James

 

[Touch Of Death]

If you are starting with your hands down your hand should countour up your body as if you were doing an outward block tight to your body, then you simply turn your wrist but you should still keep it tight (the punch is comming to you). This is more of a check: because at this point you are hopefull inside his rotation.

Were your hands up, a left inward block would not be the best inside a rotation, but I am probably not visualizing the same attack that you are. I could see facing the arm off like that one club attack tech in which the name escapes me right now, but that would be another tech direction. Any how the left stays tight so you can just drop into the thrust with out any pesky return motion lag. So my vote is for a modified outward extended (little or no extension).
Sean

 

[MJS]

I've always done the technique with double knife hands. I've also seen it done with the right as more of a closed handed block and the left open. Either way, the best option is something that is A) going to work for you, and B) something that is going to provide you with a storng enough block to stop the punch.

Mike

 

[michaeledward]

My first thought is the right block is not in the correct place.

After the block, the next strike is a right outward handsword, correct? If I have placed my right hand at his shoulder, I have no travel for the outward handsword strike to the neck. That seems to be a problem.

When I first learned the technique, I learned that the left hand was checking the mid-line, as the right was blocking high. The left hand moved up to cover the opponents right hand as the first handsword is delivered. I have had a qualified instructor tell me the left hand can execute the knife edge block at the wrist at the same time as the right inward block; which is blocking above the elbow on the inside.

I can not see the left hand getting to perform an inward block. As I am inside the attackers right, putting my left hand outside of his, and drawing toward my center line, seems to be inviting his knuckles into my teeth.

As I re-read your post, what exactly are you defending against? It almost seems you are attempting to get outside of the attackers right, like Leaping Crane. I learned Five Swords attack against a roundhouse, where there is no opportunity to move backward, away from the attacker, which, I think makes getting outside the punch impossible.

 

[JamesB]

thanks for the responses so far.

Michael thanks for your reply also. I realise that many people will probably be placing the "right block/hammerfist" to a different target, however I find blocking to the shoulder area far more effective.

Both my blocking arms (and elbows) are raising over my own shoulder height before blocking, with my hands initially by my sides. I guess I'm not describing what my left-block is doing very well

I am blocking on the inside of the arm just like regular five-swords. The attack as I understand it is a "step-through" roundhouse punch to the head. I am stepping forwards (inside the attack) to a right-neutral-bow and blocking the arm+body wide before the attacker has fully stepped through/settled into a stance.

My final "posture" for this intial defensive manouver is basically a horse-stance with both arms extended in downward hammerfists, perpendicular to my frame and parallel to each other. (i.e. straight out in front of me). Of course the neutral-bow orientation makes this a "side-on" horse but it is the same stance really.

I guess I might also explain it like this: stand in a horse-stance facing twelve. Execute two inward blocks to twelve o'clock (with each arm), so that both arms end up parallel to each other. Then do the same, but this time use an outward-extended motion with the left arm to get to the same position.

The targets are the same. The question is though, how does the left hand get there - by an outward rotation about the shoulder, or an inward rotation?

thanks!

James

 

[Doc]

The targets are the same. The question is though, how does the left hand get there - by an outward rotation about the shoulder, or an inward rotation?
James

Outward.

 

[JamesB]

Thanks Doc

would the use of an "inward" rotation with the left arm lead to - as you put it - reduced "structural integrity" in my stance, or is it more flawed due to not crossing my center-line as a "checking concept" and increasing the chances of error in the technique?

thanks,
James

 

[Doc]

Thanks Doc

would the use of an "inward" rotation with the left arm lead to - as you put it - reduced "structural integrity" in my stance, or is it more flawed due to not crossing my center-line as a "checking concept" and increasing the chances of error in the technique?

thanks,
James

Yes sir. Although the block would retain a minor degree of sructural integrity in execution, you will find the rotation "away" from your centerline to be the most effective and anatomically sound.

Consider Mr. Parker described these movements as "inward" and "outward" for a reason. In general, moving toward the centerline describes "inward," and away "outward." An "inward block from the rear in a neutral bow by description and design would mirror the angle of the extended outward from the front. Therefore the movement from the rear should be performed as, and must be described as an "outward."

 

[Touch Of Death]

Yes sir. Although the block would retain a minor degree of sructural integrity in execution, you will find the rotation "away" from your centerline to be the most effective and anatomically sound.

Consider Mr. Parker described these movements as "inward" and "outward" for a reason. In general, moving toward the centerline describes "inward," and away "outward." An "inward block from the rear in a neutral bow by description and design would mirror the angle of the extended outward from the front. Therefore the movement from the rear should be performed as, and must be described as an "outward."

I can't picture doing an inward with block with the left.
Sean

 

[Doc]

I can't picture doing an inward with block with the left.
Sean

Although it may look funny, an inward block from the backside of a right neutral bow would bring the left hand parallel with the torso and is used all the time when the "Double Check Factor" is applied correctly, along with proper execution of Body Alignments Mechanisms, and or the "Slap-Check." When done properly as a block, it has the same physical efficacy as the "inward" block with the forward arm.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Although it may look funny, an inward block from the backside of a right neutral bow would bring the left hand parallel with the torso and is used all the time when the "Double Check Factor" is applied correctly, along with proper execution of Body Alignments Mechanisms, and or the "Slap-Check." When done properly as a block, it has the same physical efficacy as the "inward" block with the forward arm.

I feel what you are saying. The left would look like you were doing an inward from a third point of veiw (9:00). I saw it as soon as you said it.
Sean

 

[Doc]

I feel what you are saying. The left would look like you were doing an inward from a third point of veiw (9:00). I saw it as soon as you said it.
Sean

Absolutely correct sir.