Kwang Gae Hyung

[CDKJudoka]

Hello out there in MT land.

It's been soem time since I have posted due to my busy TKD and Judo schedule, but I was curious to know what variations on Kwang Gae Hyung that you use, particularly my Chung Do Kwan brethren (and sistren if that is even a word). I know most if the CDK people out there have been part of the WTF, but I know my old dojang went to WTF, but still teaches some of the Chang Hon tuls.

Thanks guys. Only reason I ask is because I tested yesterday for yet another level, and the version of KGH that they teach is very different from what I learned initially.

 

[CDKJudoka]

All these views but no posts?

Iceman? Mig? Tiger?

 

[Miles]

First of all, congratulations on your test. I hope you had positive results.

I am hoping that Master Weiss or Kacey (whom I have not seen a post from in a while come to think of it) will add their knowledge to this thread.

 

[CDKJudoka]

Thank you sir. It did go well. It took a little getting used to, as I learned the ITF version, and this one was different, and it was told to me that it was the traditional CDK version.

Example: In the first set of techniques, it goes from a tension uppercut, to tension uppercut, followed by a throat grab, low soonal maki, etc.

That was the way I learned it at my old dojang, and this one does open hand overheard blocked instead of throat grabs.

There are other changes, but I was really curious about how many variations there are.

 

[Dusty]

Here is the way i teach it at my school. I trained itf pre sine wave. my instructors were all from the 60's and 70's under the general and then they broke off before he went bouncy bouncy.

Dusty, kj

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well, there are several issues here. It's kinda like the old telephone game. Person A tells a story to person B , b to c etc. until you get to J,K, L andsee how much the story changes.

here is a link to a good ITF example

The next issue is the stated application and purpose for the move.
There are no tension moves in the Chang Hun patterns.
There is no throat grab. If you are referring to #s 4 & 6, they are high hooking blocks.

13-14 & 17-18 are consecutive kicks - Side Pressing and Side Piercing. They have diferent purposes and are therefore performed differently. Is that how you do them?

16 & 20 are "Downward Strikes" Downward does not simply dictate the direction of motion, but also the point of focus for the attack. Do you know what that is?

21 & 22 are Pressing blocks. "Pressing" dicates the level of the block. Do you know what that is?

Does your standard dictate levels of High , Middle, and Low techniques?

These types of technical parameters often get lost in "Variations".

One of the fundamental theories of power is that when performing hand techniques the entire body, hands and feet movement is coordinated and finish moving at the same time, particularly if a step is involved.

Now, if you are doing a variation, is each variation supported with a sound rational justifying the variation? If so, then OK at least you have a rational basis for performing it that way. If not then is it really a variation, or just a screw up?

How may variations / screwups are there? Plenty. the saddest part is that many, unlike you, are clueless, and think they are performing according to some largely accepted standard.

In your particular case, it seems that somehow you may have been left out of the lop with regard to the specs as to how your group wants the pattern performed. A common issue with "Variations" is the lack of written specs. On rare occasions even General Choi would refer to the books further proving the old maxim that the shortest pencil is better than the longest memory. Does your group have written specs?

 

[CDKJudoka]

Does your group have written specs?

Only written specs I have are the ones that KJN typed up quite a few years ago. I am not sure how much telephone has changed ours, as we are a 3rd generation dojang.

Won-kuk Lee, then my KJN, Hyun Ok Shin and then the yudansha.

If you are referring to #s 4 & 6, they are high hooking blocks.

They are referred to in out syllabus as an open hand overhead block.

13-14 & 17-18 are consecutive kicks - Side Pressing and Side Piercing. They have diferent purposes and are therefore performed differently. Is that how you do them?

These are low/high thrust Side kicks. Targets are knees and chest.

16 & 20 are "Downward Strikes" Downward does not simply dictate the direction of motion, but also the point of focus for the attack. Do you know what that is?

In my old dojang, these are hammerfists. In the one that I am in now, it is a backfist.

21 & 22 are Pressing blocks. "Pressing" dicates the level of the block. Do you know what that is?

These are palm heel blocks, tension in this school.

 

[terryl965]

Hello out there in MT land.

It's been soem time since I have posted due to my busy TKD and Judo schedule, but I was curious to know what variations on Kwang Gae Hyung that you use, particularly my Chung Do Kwan brethren (and sistren if that is even a word). I know most if the CDK people out there have been part of the WTF, but I know my old dojang went to WTF, but still teaches some of the Chang Hon tuls.

Thanks guys. Only reason I ask is because I tested yesterday for yet another level, and the version of KGH that they teach is very different from what I learned initially.

Dark Phoenix if you go to Yom Chi Tae Kwon Do they have a book you can purchase with all the tuls in them, plus Kacey is the president of the org this year and she can be found on the front page and if you e-mail her she will be glad to help. Remember Kacey is Karen on the website. Best of luck.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Your lineage explains a great deal.

You have strong Chung Do Kwan Roots.

Many pioneers with such strong roots retained their habits when they adopted General Choi's system.

You will see this in many who can trace their roots to the Chung Do Kwan such as those of He Il Cho's lineage, Jhoon Rhee's lineage and even old time ATA people who did General Choi's system since their founder HU Lee was a Chung Do Kwan guy but later came up with his own patterns.

When I first started my instructor was under CDK pioneer Han Cha Kyo, and as you may know I had Nam Tae Hi at my school a couple of times to teach and my article with him was published in the Jan . 2000 issue of TKD Times. So, I am familiar with this issue. I have also trained with several of Han Cha Kyo's seniors and asked them about the way they did certain techniques.

They were "Old School" in that they never questioned what their instructor did letalone ask why it may have been different thanb what was in the General's books. I asked if they thought GM Han may have ever made a mistake and since they din't ask, the mistake became a permanent standard. They admitted that it was more than likely.

I also asked GM Nam about at least one unusual thing GM Han did, and hsi response was "That was Han Cha Kyo's technique". Problem was none of Hna's guys knew it was peculiar to GM Han.

 

[Earl Weiss]

These are low/high thrust Side kicks. Targets are knees and chest.

Side Kicks come in a variety of "flavors" with each having specific technical parameters and applications.

Can you explain what the parameters and applications are for your "Thrust Side Kicks"?

In the chang hun system, side kicks are : Piercing, Pressing, Pushing, Checking, Thrusting, Smashing, Stamping, . How these are defined wuld of course possibly be different in your school. A brief outline of types of attacks can be found in my articla in April 2009 - Issue 2 of Totally TKD.

 

[CDKJudoka]

Side Kicks come in a variety of "flavors" with each having specific technical parameters and applications.

Can you explain what the parameters and applications are for your "Thrust Side Kicks"?

In the chang hun system, side kicks are : Piercing, Pressing, Pushing, Checking, Thrusting, Smashing, Stamping, . How these are defined wuld of course possibly be different in your school. A brief outline of types of attacks can be found in my articla in April 2009 - Issue 2 of Totally TKD.

The way we classify our sidekicks really depends on the movement prior to the technique. For example: A side kick where you body starts in an orthodox stance and turn backwards 180 and then kicking, is a turn around side kick. Other than that, there isn't any further breakdown in the kicks classification.


Thrust side kicks in our dojang is the basic full chamber and extension side kick, normally from either the back leg or the front leg. Our point of impact is almost always the heel. The chamber is very exaggerated, IMHO, bringing the knee almost to the opposite side of your body and then "thrusting" the kick out, with a full lock out on forms.

 

[CDKJudoka]

This is the written text of our Kwang Gae

 

[Earl Weiss]

You may find this of interest (Perhaps not but if you ever review the terminology as to how Gneral Choi designed the patterns you will see that there is a lot more to a technique than a name.

Side Piercing kick. Has a rotation of the attacking surface similar to the rotation of a punch. Meant to attack more fluid areas of the body to induce hemorhage from Hydraulic shock. (Think Bullet rotation)
Side thrusting kick. Thrusts are designed simply to penetrate a vital area (Think penetration of an arrow)
Side pushing designed to displace or unbalance.
Side Pressing designed solely to attack the knee joint.
Side Checking. Designed to stop an oncoming person or technique.

 

[CDKJudoka]

Thanks for the info. That is definitely something that I have to start looking further into.