Kung fu in MMA Wins

[Hanzou]

If you like arm drag, why don't you like switch hand? The switch hands is just more "abstract".

I like arm drags because they have actual applications beyond simple theory. I can actually view professional fighters utilize arm drags in a variety of positions and situations.

I can’t say the same for the switch hand scenario you mentioned earlier.

When I use the term "back hand reverse punch", MMA guy may say it's bad. But when I use the term "cross", MMA guy will say it's good. I don't understand. Both are the same thing with different terms.

One day when the striking art and the grappling art will be fully integrated, I guarantee that you will see switch hands concept be used in MMA. It's a nice bridge to link the striking art with the grappling art.

That has already occurred, and it’s called MMA. I don’t see much of the “switch hands” you’re talking about, or anyone really utilizing CMA hand techniques. The vast majority have simply incorporated western boxing.

It's a principle. Whether you use it or not, It's all over the CMA.

And that’s perfectly fine. My point is that those who do martial arts for a living, and have to utilize effective techniques to eat, sleep, and keep their lights on aren’t using that principle, and don’t believe that CMA principles are “safer” than western boxing principles.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don’t see much of the “switch hands” you’re talking about, or anyone really utilizing CMA hand techniques. The vast majority have simply incorporated western boxing.

MMA is still too young.

I truly believe one day MMA guy will use switch hands to "set up" take down.

1. Right hand on the wrist.
2. Left hand on the elbow.
3. Right hand on the neck.

R-L-R is a switch hands.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Except JowGa is basing that observation on a demonstration of the principles of the technique, not the actual technique itself. The actual technique begins at 3:37 in this video. Feel free to critique that.

This dude is still fully compliant to the technique being demonstrated and leaves his arm hanging out longer than he would if this was done against a resisting opponent. The only way Red or anyone will be in such a position is if White can pull the arm enough to make Red feel as if he's going to fall forward. (edited or if he can swing that opponents arm out of the way which isn't what's he's doing for the technique he's demonstrating.)

Find one video where this is done against an resisting opponent as demonstrated here and then I'll agree with you. But until then, Time and distance is always a factor in fighting. You don't have time unless you can do something that makes your opponent waste time. Such has making the opponent feel as if he's falling forward so that he wastes time by reacting to the sensation of falling forward instead of dealing with the attack.

 

[Hanzou]

View attachment 27273

This dude is still fully compliant to the technique being demonstrated and leaves his arm hanging out longer than he would if this was done against a resisting opponent. The only way Red or anyone will be in such a position is if White can pull the arm enough to make Red feel as if he's going to fall forward.

Find one video where this is done against an resisting opponent as demonstrated here and then I'll agree with you. But until then, Time and distance is always a factor in fighting. You don't have time unless you can do something that makes your opponent waste time. Such has making the opponent feel as if he's falling forward so that he wastes time by reacting to the sensation of falling forward instead of dealing with the attack.

Here’s Marcelo Garcia doing it against multiple people;

 

[Hanzou]

MMA is still too young.

I truly believe one day MMA guy will use switch hands to "set up" take down.

1. Right hand on the wrist.
2. Left hand on the elbow.
3. Right hand on the neck.

R-L-R is a switch hands.

MMA is almost 30 years old. How much longer you think it’s going to take?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here’s Marcelo Garcia doing it against multiple people;

That's the arm Pinning Against the Body. That's not what was being demonstrated. In the other video. I didn't ask if the Arm Drag works. I already know it works. The issue I was pointing out was having the arm take the long way around as shown in this video.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's the arm Pinning Against the Body. That's not what was being demonstrated. In the other video. I didn't ask if the Arm Drag works. I already know it works. The issue I was pointing out was having the arm take the long way around as shown in this video.

View attachment 27274

The videos that you showed does not show this. How do I know, because I was looking for a video that shows this technique of moving the arm to the inside to see if their arms took the long way around and I ran across that same video you posted. Most people pin the arm and because the natural instinct is to pull the arm out in order to free it, the end up in a worse position. That video that you showed does not show this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here’s Marcelo Garcia doing it against multiple people;

Nothing in that video shows this. Your videos shows that arm being pinned.

 

[Hanzou]

Nothing in that video shows this. Your videos shows that arm being pinned.

From the video;

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

MMA is almost 30 years old. How much longer you think it’s going to take?

Just give another 30 more years. This is why JKD is not a complete system yet. Bruce Lee died too young.

We don't see any foot sweep used in the 1st or 2nd UFC fight. But today we have seen it's used in UFC.

 

[Hanzou]

Just give another 30 more years. This is why JKD is not a complete system yet. Bruce Lee died too young.

We don't see any foot sweep used in the 1st or 2nd UFC fight. But today we have seen it's used in UFC.

Uh huh. 🤣

 

[JowGaWolf]

From the video;
View attachment 27276

Sorry this isn't it If this was the same as that other video then . Black would moved to Blue's left side by pulling Blue's arm through the middle. From there, Black's back should be pointing more to us.

Here's what happens

Black moves into inside of Blues arm. This is why we can clearly see Blues arm. Had the arm been pulled through the middle, then we would not be able to see Blue's arm.

Black drops through the center. Notice we can still see Blue's arm on the outside. We can also see Black drive under the arm moving to the right. If he was doing the same move as in the video, he would have been moving to the left based on the arm he was dragging.

Where we see that Black is not on the left side of Blue. The arm that he was dragging was Blues Right arm, Not the left.

This position above is not the same as this one. below. The one below he goes to the side of the arm he was dragging. At top he goes to the side of the arm that he wasn't dragging. I watch the video frame by frame. Keep looking.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just give another 30 more years. This is why JKD is not a complete system yet. Bruce Lee died too young.

We don't see any foot sweep used in the 1st or 2nd UFC fight. But today we have seen it's used in UFC.

MMA has been doing pulling off sweeps for a while. But they are like comets that show up ever 70 years.

A nicely done back sweep at 1:15 It was about as text book as you probably will get in MMA
1:54 is another Traditional sweep. Those and the cung le one that you showed is in there.

 

[Hanzou]

View attachment 27277

Sorry this isn't it If this was the same as that other video then . Black would moved to Blue's left side by pulling Blue's arm through the middle. From there, Black's back should be pointing more to us.

Here's what happens

Black moves into inside of Blues arm. This is why we can clearly see Blues arm. Had the arm been pulled through the middle, then we would not be able to see Blue's arm.
View attachment 27278

Black drops through the center. Notice we can still see Blue's arm on the outside. We can also see Black drive under the arm moving to the right. If he was doing the same move as in the video, he would have been moving to the left based on the arm he was dragging.
View attachment 27279


Where we see that Black is not on the left side of Blue. The arm that he was dragging was Blues Right arm, Not the left.

View attachment 27280

This position above is not the same as this one. below. The one below he goes to the side of the arm he was dragging. At top he goes to the side of the arm that he wasn't dragging. I watch the video frame by frame. Keep looking.

At first you said the problem was that the arm wasn't being pinned. Now you're saying the issue is that the takedown isn't on the same side as the arm that was being dragged?

 

[Hanzou]

By the way, this is the actual technique being demonstrated.

 

[Oily Dragon]

How's it going Oily?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

From the video;
View attachment 27276

I don't understand why the MMA single leg doesn't use the other hand to push on the shoulder (or neck)? You will have longer axis and it will make your take down easier.

Do you know why?

 

[Hanzou]

I don't understand why the MMA single leg doesn't use the other hand to push on the shoulder (or neck)? You will have longer axis and it will make your take down easier.

Do you know why?

What do you mean by an “MMA single leg”? There’s a wide variety of single leg takedowns.

 

[JowGaWolf]

At first you said the problem was that the arm wasn't being pinned

I'm pretty sure I didn't say this. I think you get confused because you move the original focus about the spear arm /hand

 

[Hanzou]

I'm pretty sure I didn't say this. I think you get confused because you move the original focus about the spear arm /hand

Nothing in that video shows this. Your videos shows that arm being pinned.

?????????????????????????????

Let's rewind; YOU were the one who originally linked this video because you erroneously believed that he was initiating an arm drag using a spear hand (and that it had some bizarre link to Kung fu forms). When that was proven false, you moved the goalpost over to this guy not knowing how to do an arm drag, or that doing an arm drag opens you up to counters. Then you asked me to show you an arm drag takedown with a resisting opponent, so when I showed you multiple from Marcelo Garcia, you moved the goalposts again and demanded that I show you an arm drag where the arm isn't pinned. When I showed you such a takedown, you moved the goalposts once again.

I'm just trying to keep up with the shifting arguments here before we move forward.