Kukkiwon restructure

[FearlessFreep]

What other arts have a central organization similar to the KKW?

What does that bring to TKD that other arts do not have?

What does it cost TKD?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

What other arts have a central organization similar to the KKW?

Kendo has the FIK (Federation international kendo) of which the KKA (Korean Kumdo Association) is an affiliate. I'm sure that other Japanese arts have their official bodies, due to the way such things are structured in Japan regarding government recognition and such. Fencing has the FIE (Federation International Escrime) of which the USAF is an affiliate. Can't speak for other arts. The FIE is probably the closest the KKW in terms of its dominance (it really has no competition at all, whilst the KKW has some). FIE not withstanding, I don't believe other martial organizations to be as proliferate or as commercial as the KKW seems to have become.

What does that bring to TKD that other arts do not have?

In theory, minimum standards at each belt level the world over and portable rank the world over.

What does it cost TKD?

It costs taekwondo a great degree of diversity in technique. All must step in line with the big organization or be marginalized. Some did not get on board with the Kukkiwon, and so we still have Tang Soo Do and Mu duk kwan surviving outside of the KKW, but lets face it, the KKW dominates the landscape of taekwondo.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Well for one thing instant recognition from anywhere in the world. RMcLain since I have spoken to GM Park about this and he is in uh about it, GM Kurban has stepped down and was thrown a retirement party about two months ago. He is also moved the way of KKW TKD and has been doing so for the last couple of years. Whu do you think he has been so big in the Ft. Worth international with alot of players as of late. Last year he brought over fifty to compete in Olympic style of sparring.

Not trying to start a war here but it does effect both of them and will so if it folds just like it will effect alot of us.

 

[Twin Fist]

So who is running his school now?

Mike Johnson has his own place.

Jennifer branch is more or less out of the business

Andrea Ronch has the rank, but she isnt senior enough

Ramsey has his own place

Eva and Nevill have thier own place

?

 

[rmclain]

Well for one thing instant recognition from anywhere in the world. RMcLain since I have spoken to GM Park about this and he is in uh about it, GM Kurban has stepped down and was thrown a retirement party about two months ago. He is also moved the way of KKW TKD and has been doing so for the last couple of years. Whu do you think he has been so big in the Ft. Worth international with alot of players as of late. Last year he brought over fifty to compete in Olympic style of sparring.

Not trying to start a war here but it does effect both of them and will so if it folds just like it will effect alot of us.

Thanks for keeping me up-to-date on him. I didn't know his dojang went that way or that he retired. I lost contact with Master Johnson after I left teaching at UTA. I figured they were still doing the same way.

Who is the Chief Instructor now at Grandmaster Kurban's place?

R. McLain

 

[terryl965]

So who is running his school now?

Mike Johnson has his own place.

Jennifer branch is more or less out of the business

Andrea Ronch has the rank, but she isnt senior enough

Ramsey has his own place

Eva and Nevill have thier own place

?

What I understand it is John Paul Mitchell and Ed and Helen Copeland.

By the way Mike is doing well at his new place, Eva and nevil is having trouble keeping the doors open I hear.

 

[Twin Fist]

ah, that makes sense. JP is a good guy, I always liked him. Good fighter.Good forms too.

Ed and helen are good people as well.

Mike should be doing well, that close to the college. I always liked Eva, but I dont know Nevill that well. Sorry to hear they are having problems, but i cant say it suprises me. Some folks in Ft Worth wont take to thier ...."situation" very well

 

[Miles]

This is one of the topics I wish to discuss with GM Park (former instructor at KKW) when he comes in October. When he visited last April, he was very happy that my students received KKW certification. When we trained in my basement dojang ("the Miguk Kukkiwon" he called it , he looked long and hard at the group photo of the Instructor Course trainees.

GM Uhm (KKW President) is GM Park's instructor. GM Uhm has dedicated his life to Taekwondo and his shoes will be very hard to fill. I am wondering who will be able to fill them and what their agenda will be.

This is an exciting time for Taekwondoin.

 

[IcemanSK]

This is one of the topics I wish to discuss with GM Park (former instructor at KKW) when he comes in October. When he visited last April, he was very happy that my students received KKW certification. When we trained in my basement dojang ("the Miguk Kukkiwon" he called it , he looked long and hard at the group photo of the Instructor Course trainees.

GM Uhm (KKW President) is GM Park's instructor. GM Uhm has dedicated his life to Taekwondo and his shoes will be very hard to fill. I am wondering who will be able to fill them and what their agenda will be.

This is an exciting time for Taekwondoin.

I'm glad you're optimistic, Master Miles. It's nor my nature, sadly. I'm working on cautiously optimistic. I anxiously await your report on GM Park's thoughts on the matter.:asian:

 

[miguksaram]

The KKW will not fold. There may be a purging of personel but KKW is not going anywhere. Keep in mind what it symbolizes to the Korean people. The government has helped back the structuring of the KKW since its beginnings. To clos it down would actually do more harm than good. People responsible for any misuse of monetary income will be asked to step down from their position.

The kwans will always have their lineages regardless of KKW. There are still Kwan HQ's all over Korea. For the most part they are more of a 'Hwe' (Association) than a 'Kwan' (School).

 

[YoungMan]

Better question.

Why does the KKW need to survive?

no seriously.

what point does it serve?

how does it benefit TKD?

Why does it need to survive? Because it provides oversight to many schools and helps prevent rinky-dink instructors from teaching as they see fit and calling it Taekwondo. Call it accredidation if you will. I will trust a Kukkiwon school before I will a lot of schools that are not Kukkiwon, because at least I know what I'm getting. Otherwise, you're taking your chances.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Why does it need to survive? Because it provides oversight to many schools and helps prevent rinky-dink instructors from teaching as they see fit and calling it Taekwondo. Call it accredidation if you will. I will trust a Kukkiwon school before I will a lot of schools that are not Kukkiwon, because at least I know what I'm getting. Otherwise, you're taking your chances.

Thats what its supposed to do. I have, unfortunately, seen some very poor instructors with KKW credentials. I've also seen some rinky dink instructors with no KKW credentials who are very, very good.

You're spot on regarding accredidation, though, and that's how much of the public sees it as well.

Daniel

 

[IcemanSK]

The KKW will not fold. There may be a purging of personel but KKW is not going anywhere. Keep in mind what it symbolizes to the Korean people. The government has helped back the structuring of the KKW since its beginnings. To clos it down would actually do more harm than good. People responsible for any misuse of monetary income will be asked to step down from their position.

The kwans will always have their lineages regardless of KKW. There are still Kwan HQ's all over Korea. For the most part they are more of a 'Hwe' (Association) than a 'Kwan' (School).

That assumes that folks know what their kwan lineage might be. Many people do not, nor do they care. For many, the KKW is all they've been told about.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The KKW will not fold. There may be a purging of personel but KKW is not going anywhere. Keep in mind what it symbolizes to the Korean people. The government has helped back the structuring of the KKW since its beginnings. To clos it down would actually do more harm than good. People responsible for any misuse of monetary income will be asked to step down from their position.

That's pretty much how I see it.

Daniel

 

[miguksaram]

That assumes that folks know what their kwan lineage might be. Many people do not, nor do they care. For many, the KKW is all they've been told about.

Which is just as good. The whole purpose of uniting under one roof was to do away with the individuality of kwans in order to work for a common goal. For the most part the kwans are just social clubs for the old gaurd.

 

[dancingalone]

Which is just as good. The whole purpose of uniting under one roof was to do away with the individuality of kwans in order to work for a common goal. For the most part the kwans are just social clubs for the old gaurd.

I preferred the kwan system myself. Too many kwan specific hyung and exercises were lost in the name of Korean nationality. It's always been the martial art I care about instead of some political ideal which frankly is lost on an American anyway.

 

[Baby_Huey]

I'm not a WTF student or an ITF Student, I do study both ITF forms and WTF Palgwes at my school, Jung's Tae Kwon Do Academy ran by Grandmaster Woo Jin Jung. He has several schools in Iowa, Florida, North and South Carolina and a few other affililate schools. My grandmaster believes that both ITF and WTF should merge as one are. I don't think that Kukkiwon will fold but maybe this might help with a possible merger between the two, which in my opinion would help out Tae Kwon Do more as an art then Kukkiwon folding.

 

[miguksaram]

I preferred the kwan system myself. Too many kwan specific hyung and exercises were lost in the name of Korean nationality. It's always been the martial art I care about instead of some political ideal which frankly is lost on an American anyway.

Not to sound like an ***, but if you prefer the "Kwan" then your best bet is to quit TKD and join Shotokan as that is where the vast majority of the kwans came from. Unless you came from Changdokwan or Jidokwan, the forms were pretty much the same through out. It was more than just a political idea that prompted the formation of TKD.

 

[dancingalone]

Not to sound like an ***, but if you prefer the "Kwan" then your best bet is to quit TKD and join Shotokan as that is where the vast majority of the kwans came from. Unless you came from Changdokwan or Jidokwan, the forms were pretty much the same through out. It was more than just a political idea that prompted the formation of TKD.

Yes, I was primarily thinking of the Jido Kwan and the Manchurian chuan fa forms Byung In Yoon taught. My opinion still stands though. I prefer my martial arts to be organic and more familial or school oriented. The whole Kukkiwon system seems rather sterile and bureaucratic, but I'm not a Kukkiwon member so what do I know?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes, I was primarily thinking of the Jido Kwan and the Manchurian chuan fa forms Byung In Yoon taught. My opinion still stands though. I prefer my martial arts to be organic and more familial or school oriented. The whole Kukkiwon system seems rather sterile and bureaucratic, but I'm not a Kukkiwon member so what do I know?

Unfortunately, anytime a big organization swallows one or more smaller organizations, homogenization is what occurs and whatever charm or uniqueness is lost.

Daniel