Koto ryu Koppojutsu and Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu

[heretic888]

Hey guys, I'm doin' a bit of research at the moment, and I'd wonder if you'd all help me out.

In your own words, how would you characterize and describe Koto-ryu Koppojutsu and Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu?? You know, in terms of techniques, principles, ideologies, feelings, flow, etc etc??

Thanks. Laterz.

 

[Pyros]

Hehee. I'll start with the obvious so others can get right to the point... Gyokko Ryu is the source for Kihon Happo. Koto Ryu is famous for it's bone manipulation tactics.

 

[heretic888]

Errr.... anyone else??

 

[Elhan]

http://www.bujinkanbc.com/Ryuinfo.htm

This site gives rather extensive information on the martial arts you are interested in. Ninjutsu sites of all the Nine Ryu will usually contain an excerpt on them. They are the Bone Martial Arts, and are rather rare. I would recommend hiring a video on them if you want to find out more.

An alternative suggestion is to try using Nina Williams in Tekken 5 (http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/tekken5/profile.php?id=nina), if you are into games. The game is rather realistic, and has realistic motion animation. Her pressure points will give you a feel of Gyokko-Ryu, whilst her bone breaking techniques will give you an idea of Koto-Ryu. Keep in mind though her style is a blend of Aikido, the Bone MAs and commando kicks/grapples, so you have to know what to look for. She is also extremely specialised and experienced, so keep in mind some of the moves are more flexible than what you may be taught if you were to learn the art. I used to wonder why her bone strikes were so powerful, but when I read up on the arts she uses, it made sense. The training regime forms your limbs into lethal weapons, and the strikes are at extremely vulnerable parts of the human body.

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

Hey guys, I'm doin' a bit of research at the moment, and I'd wonder if you'd all help me out.

In your own words, how would you characterize and describe Koto-ryu Koppojutsu and Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu?? You know, in terms of techniques, principles, ideologies, feelings, flow, etc etc??

Thanks. Laterz.

From what I have experienced..

Koto-ryu: straightforward. To the point. Your opponent comes to you intending to do harm. Just as he is about to get close to you, you jam your fingers on his throat and rake his face, possibly gouging out an eye or two. Quick destruction!

Gyokko-ryu: How to defeat strong and stubborn opponent. He punch you, you block, he tried to kick you, you avoid. He still wants to fight you, so he lunged at you and grab your lapel. You apply wristlock to him and kick him to make sure he stays down after you throw him. Then you jump away to safety. End of fight.

 

[Kreth]

They are the Bone Martial Arts, and are rather rare.

??? Actually, these two systems are taught quite frequently in the Bujinkan...

 

[Bigshadow]

Her pressure points will give you a feel of Gyokko-Ryu, whilst her bone breaking techniques will give you an idea of Koto-Ryu.

Whaaaa? You have got to be kidding! :roflmao:

So you mean a picture of a pot of soup will give an idea of how it tastes?

That kind of reminds me of my son who thought he could play tennis because he was good at Mario Tennis. We went out to the REAL tennis courts and he found out it was alot of work and the experience wasn't even close to what he thought it would be! :roflmao:

 

[Cryozombie]

That kind of reminds me of my son who thought he could play tennis because he was good at Mario Tennis. We went out to the REAL tennis courts and he found out it was alot of work and the experience wasn't even close to what he thought it would be! :roflmao:

It amazes me how common it is to think that these things can be learned from videogames. Granted, I have seen some moves in some games (like DOA3) that I have looked at and said... "Hmm, that looks like it could work, if..." in much the same way as you can see somthing in a video and go... Hmm...

But learn it from a game? Might as well lay down in a hole now...

 

[mrhnau]

It amazes me how common it is to think that these things can be learned from videogames. Granted, I have seen some moves in some games (like DOA3) that I have looked at and said... "Hmm, that looks like it could work, if..." in much the same way as you can see somthing in a video and go... Hmm...

But learn it from a game? Might as well lay down in a hole now...

I think its about the same as a movie.. its good entertainment, and if it does inspire you to pursue a real martial art, then all the better!

As far as learning from a video game, I'd agree, that would be pretty silly, in the same way I should not learn MA from those incredibly fun kung fu movies

 

[Elhan]

It amazes me how common it is to think that these things can be learned from videogames. Granted, I have seen some moves in some games (like DOA3) that I have looked at and said... "Hmm, that looks like it could work, if..." in much the same way as you can see somthing in a video and go... Hmm...

But learn it from a game? Might as well lay down in a hole now...

As if I said you can actually learn the techniques from the game...No. Obviously you cannot. They do, however, use motion animators to get the moves worked out, as well as hire martial artists to capture their motions and so on. So, the game can actually demonstrate what the moves look like if that's what you're aiming for. So its a good way to see what they are like. So yes the moves look realistic, yes they look powerful, but no, I never implied its a valid way of learning them...for now. Virtual reality might yet change that.

As for the rarity of the two arts, well in Europe finding a Bujinkan school is not an easy matter. I am surprised to ask Masters here if they have heard of Gyokko/Koto Ryu to end up having them ask me "what the hell is that?" Really good ones too. Other martial arts, like Aikido, are much easier to find trainers for. To be absolutely honest, had I not heard of the specific Ryu's from Tekken, and had I not seen documentaries on Bujinkan, I would not know it existed either.

 

[Bigshadow]

I think its about the same as a movie.. its good entertainment, and if it does inspire you to pursue a real martial art, then all the better!

I agree with that wholeheartedly! Training videos are the same. Unless someone has experienced/felt it, the training videos are virtually of no use other than just entertainment.

 

[Elhan]

I agree with that wholeheartedly! Training videos are the same. Unless someone has experienced/felt it, the training videos are virtually of no use other than just entertainment.

Yet he said he's doing research on it, not actually wanting to study the art.

 

[Bigshadow]

Yet he said he's doing research on it, not actually wanting to study the art.

True, but what better way to research it, than try it out, "feel" it. I will forewarn anyone wanting to, it is addictive!

 

[Elhan]

True, but what better way to research it, than try it out, "feel" it. I will forewarn anyone wanting to, it is addictive!

Well I was under the impression that Ninjutsu was quite rare outside of Japan. It certainly is in Europe.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Can't be too rare around your parts, have a look at www.winjutsu.com.

 

[Elhan]

Can't be too rare around your parts, have a look at www.winjutsu.com.

Hmm, quite a few of them, but most of them are in London. I am way up North. -_-

 

[rutherford]

Well I was under the impression that Ninjutsu was quite rare outside of Japan. It certainly is in Europe.

Nimravus is in Europe, and most of the people responding in this thread are Bujinkan members. Me too.

:wavey:

 

[Elhan]

Nimravus is in Europe, and most of the people responding in this thread are Bujinkan members. Me too.

:wavey:

Cool to know.

 

[Cryozombie]

To be absolutely honest, had I not heard of the specific Ryu's from Tekken, and had I not seen documentaries on Bujinkan, I would not know it existed either.

MOST of my exposure in the Bujinkan has been to those two ryus, as far as I know. I was under the mistaken impression before I started training with my current instructor about 3 years ago that most of what I had seen came from Togakure Ryu, but that is not the case.

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but motion capture or not... I wouldnt try and learn about a specific art from watching moves in a videogame. I do some work with an Indie film company, and from that perspective I remind you that whenever you use an art for "entertainment" purposes, it has to be "opened up" so the movements are visible, look cool, and have value as entertainment... I would have to believe the same holds true of most fighting games, the attack, to look good and attract a buyer, has to have some "flair" to it... and therefore probably isn't true to what the art actually is.

 

[Elhan]

MOST of my exposure in the Bujinkan has been to those two ryus, as far as I know. I was under the mistaken impression before I started training with my current instructor about 3 years ago that most of what I had seen came from Togakure Ryu, but that is not the case.

I think Koto Ryu and Gyokko Ryu are two of the first ryus you learn, no?

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but motion capture or not... I wouldnt try and learn about a specific art from watching moves in a videogame. I do some work with an Indie film company, and from that perspective I remind you that whenever you use an art for "entertainment" purposes, it has to be "opened up" so the movements are visible, look cool, and have value as entertainment... I would have to believe the same holds true of most fighting games, the attack, to look good and attract a buyer, has to have some "flair" to it... and therefore probably isn't true to what the art actually is.

Neither would I, as I have said repeatedly. As I said, it did stimulate an interest in the martial arts in me though.