veritasAequitas

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Further evidence that DL is a $$$ grab


If Andy believes so strongly in the DNA system, why is he using the ATA krav maga curriculum with DNA nailed to it?
 

veritasAequitas

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That Krav video made me laugh, he probably realised that the term "Krav Maga" gets more hits on Youtube than "DefenceLab".

We have a winner, he met Bill Clarke of the ata at a seminar around the time of the Batman films.

Its ATA krav maga with the stupid rings and obsession with frames thrown in.

All the defense lab internal operations are now closely modeled on the ata instructor programme, it's a gigantic pyramid scheme.

You sign people on as instructors, they open a school and sign people on as instructors.
 

Martial D

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dam·age
ˈdamij/
noun
  1. 1.
    physical harm caused to something in such a way as to impair its value, usefulness, or normal function.
    synonyms: harm, destruction, vandalism;
Pain != Damage
 

jobo

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We have a winner, he met Bill Clarke of the ata at a seminar around the time of the Batman films.

Its ATA krav maga with the stupid rings and obsession with frames thrown in.

All the defense lab internal operations are now closely modeled on the ata instructor programme, it's a gigantic pyramid scheme.

You sign people on as instructors, they open a school and sign people on as instructors.
It's looking more and more like you have a personal Greviance against the guy,
 

GreatUniter

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@jobo , @veritasAequitas , you are both right and wrong at the same time. Mr. @jobo , you are right when you say that going down on the ground in a street fight is a no-go, because most of the street fights (but not all) are chaotic and involve more than 1 opponent, and if you fall there are chances that you can be hurt badly. So, in this way, bjj is not good. Mr. @veritasAequitas you are also right with your opinion that DL is not good system because it's not real and doesn't train you for real situations. However, you are both wrong because all martial arts (be it systems, traditional martial arts or some movies-fu) are limited, because they are creations from people, and people make mistakes all the times.

No martial art or system is proven to work 100% on the street. It depends only on the practitioners. In my life until now, I have seen good and bad martial artist. It does not mean that a martial art or system is bad. You have good and bad instructors/teachers of DL, bjj, systema, jkd, karate, boxing, kung fu etc etc. It really depends on the practitioner, not the martial art, because like I said, no martial art/system works 100%. However, what works 80-90% of the time is the ability to adapt for different situations (including running away).

Let me explain from my point of view. First of all, I have a lot of street fighting experience, usually one on 2 or more opponents, without formal martial arts training in those years, only some pad drills, boxing bag, basic wrestling moves (now I'm studying martial arts). In my younger days I saw and participated in a lot of street fights. I inflicted pain in people, people have injured me (thanks God nothing serious). Eye gouges, headbutts, groin strikes/grabs, close-combat grabs/clinches, chokes, biting, vital point strikes and other "dirty" moves are best weapons for self defense when it comes to bare-hand/unarmed street fighting. But also running away is one of the best self defense tactics ever invented. One must know when to fight and when to run away from physical contact (yes, I also have ran away from lot of fights, because the situations were not in my favor). It really depends on the situation.

All martial arts and self defense systems are good, but nearly all there are lacking one thing: they don't teach you when to retreat and run away from fight, and most of them don't teach you how to adapt to different self defense approach. But it doesn't mean that it's not included in a specific martial art. Most of the instructors won't teaching you that (like everywhere, there are exceptions). Also, most of the teachers won't teach you how to adapt to changes in fighting, that is a must in fighting and self - defense imo. Fighting with drunkards, chaotic bar/disco fights, with a lot of defocusing around you (loud music, screaming, partial vision impairments etc) are something that every self defense instructor that is serious about teaching must include in their so called "live training". Even tma instructors must include these things in training because these are most present things in modern life self defense situations. It's way different from past times training and self defense scenarios that occurred in those times.

Does it mean that a martial art/system is bad? Absolutely not. Does it mean a practitioner/instructor/teacher/master/grandmaster is bad? Maybe, but not always. There are people that are good at martial arts, but not at fighting. Also, people that are good at fighting, but not talented in martial arts. It really depends on the practitioners. If most martial arts/systems teachers/instructors include in their teaching some live training like I said before, the martial art/system (be it boxing, mma, krav maga, dl, bjj.....) will not matter. What will matter will be the effort a practitioner is making to learn something effective. Even combat sports/tournament martial arts can be effective with proper "live training" (when we talk about self defense situations, not ring/cage fighting).

P.S. There are plenty of good people and things around that you can learn something from, even on the internet. Read some books of Masutatsu Oyama, Gichin Funakoshi, Motobu Choki on practical fighting/karate, watch videos of Mr. Iain Abernethy's practical kata, listen to what Mr. Jesse Enkamp have to say about fighting/karate, Mr. Lyoto Machida's thinking about karate/mma, Gracie and Machado about practical bjj, read Bruce Lee's books about fighting/jkd, watch videos/demonstrations of krav maga/kapap of Mr. Avi Nardia, Roy Elghanayan, Lior Offenbach etc etc. You can learn useful things from anybody if you are open minded enough for learning. There are bad teachers, but also very good martial art/system teachers/practitoners that are publicly available. Everything works, except magic/chi fighting :D.

Peace and sorry for my english and the long post.:D
 

jobo

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@jobo , @veritasAequitas , you are both right and wrong at the same time. Mr. @jobo , you are right when you say that going down on the ground in a street fight is a no-go, because most of the street fights (but not all) are chaotic and involve more than 1 opponent, and if you fall there are chances that you can be hurt badly. So, in this way, bjj is not good. Mr. @veritasAequitas you are also right with your opinion that DL is not good system because it's not real and doesn't train you for real situations. However, you are both wrong because all martial arts (be it systems, traditional martial arts or some movies-fu) are limited, because they are creations from people, and people make mistakes all the times.

No martial art or system is proven to work 100% on the street. It depends only on the practitioners. In my life until now, I have seen good and bad martial artist. It does not mean that a martial art or system is bad. You have good and bad instructors/teachers of DL, bjj, systema, jkd, karate, boxing, kung fu etc etc. It really depends on the practitioner, not the martial art, because like I said, no martial art/system works 100%. However, what works 80-90% of the time is the ability to adapt for different situations (including running away).

Let me explain from my point of view. First of all, I have a lot of street fighting experience, usually one on 2 or more opponents, without formal martial arts training in those years, only some pad drills, boxing bag, basic wrestling moves (now I'm studying martial arts). In my younger days I saw and participated in a lot of street fights. I inflicted pain in people, people have injured me (thanks God nothing serious). Eye gouges, headbutts, groin strikes/grabs, close-combat grabs/clinches, chokes, biting, vital point strikes and other "dirty" moves are best weapons for self defense when it comes to bare-hand/unarmed street fighting. But also running away is one of the best self defense tactics ever invented. One must know when to fight and when to run away from physical contact (yes, I also have ran away from lot of fights, because the situations were not in my favor). It really depends on the situation.

All martial arts and self defense systems are good, but nearly all there are lacking one thing: they don't teach you when to retreat and run away from fight, and most of them don't teach you how to adapt to different self defense approach. But it doesn't mean that it's not included in a specific martial art. Most of the instructors won't teaching you that (like everywhere, there are exceptions). Also, most of the teachers won't teach you how to adapt to changes in fighting, that is a must in fighting and self - defense imo. Fighting with drunkards, chaotic bar/disco fights, with a lot of defocusing around you (loud music, screaming, partial vision impairments etc) are something that every self defense instructor that is serious about teaching must include in their so called "live training". Even tma instructors must include these things in training because these are most present things in modern life self defense situations. It's way different from past times training and self defense scenarios that occurred in those times.

Does it mean that a martial art/system is bad? Absolutely not. Does it mean a practitioner/instructor/teacher/master/grandmaster is bad? Maybe, but not always. There are people that are good at martial arts, but not at fighting. Also, people that are good at fighting, but not talented in martial arts. It really depends on the practitioners. If most martial arts/systems teachers/instructors include in their teaching some live training like I said before, the martial art/system (be it boxing, mma, krav maga, dl, bjj.....) will not matter. What will matter will be the effort a practitioner is making to learn something effective. Even combat sports/tournament martial arts can be effective with proper "live training" (when we talk about self defense situations, not ring/cage fighting).

P.S. There are plenty of good people and things around that you can learn something from, even on the internet. Read some books of Masutatsu Oyama, Gichin Funakoshi, Motobu Choki on practical fighting/karate, watch videos of Mr. Iain Abernethy's practical kata, listen to what Mr. Jesse Enkamp have to say about fighting/karate, Mr. Lyoto Machida's thinking about karate/mma, Gracie and Machado about practical bjj, read Bruce Lee's books about fighting/jkd, watch videos/demonstrations of krav maga/kapap of Mr. Avi Nardia, Roy Elghanayan, Lior Offenbach etc etc. You can learn useful things from anybody if you are open minded enough for learning. There are bad teachers, but also very good martial art/system teachers/practitoners that are publicly available. Everything works, except magic/chi fighting :D.

Peace and sorry for my english and the long post.:D
Theres a lot there, lets pick them one at a time, there are not good martial artists who cant fight, there are perhaps ma that have gone a long way in their gradings, but if that doesnt result in them being able to out up a robust defence against most people, then they are not good martial artists, artists perhaps,
 

GreatUniter

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Theres a lot there, lets pick them one at a time, there are not good martial artists who cant fight, there are perhaps ma that have gone a long way in their gradings, but if that doesnt result in them being able to out up a robust defence against most people, then they are not good martial artists, artists perhaps,


One of my personal favorites :p
 
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