Keysi Fighting Method/Defence Lab

[veritasAequitas]

It's also a common misconception that adrenaline,reduces pain responce, studies have shown that it can both marginaly increase and reduce pain response dependent on the typE of pain, the Definning factor in reduced pain response is not adrenaline but the subject being distracted, by what ever is Stressing them, not the bodies reaction to that stress, if you make make them concentrate on the pain, then the pain response is higher, not lower, Ie if it's the pain that is causing the adrenaline release then the pain response will be greater

Cite them.

adrenaline (epinephrine) or norepinephrine occupy the alpha 2 receptors in the ascending tract of the spinal cord, blocking the transmission of pain up the spinal cord to the brain

release of epi/norepinephrine also stimulates the release of enkephalins and endorphins from the adrenal gland. They are the bodies natural version of opiods. Enkephalins act at the delta receptor and endorphins at Mu1 (same receptor opioids act at to modulate pain)

note: interestingly enough the adrenaline that blocks the alpha 2 receptors comes from the brain and is not just the circulating levels. Therefore it is commonly known as descending inhibition. This inhibition can also be activated by rubbing or massaging an injury. Think about it, when you stub your tow or bang your elbow what do you instinctively do - rub or massage it.

"Spinal iontophoresis of NA or intrathecal administration of a non-selective alpha agonists inhibits stimulus induced depolarization of nociceptive neurons [34, 82] [17]. Because alpha-1 agonists such as phenylephrine are without analgesic effects, the alpha-2 receptors were concluded to mediate the antinociceptive effect of NA."

 

[jobo]

Pain compliance on its own is not enough, i made this point with skin tears, so you goal posted the argument.

I asked you how do you escape a mount and you dodged the question.

I

Cite them.

adrenaline (epinephrine) or norepinephrine occupy the alpha 2 receptors in the ascending tract of the spinal cord, blocking the transmission of pain up the spinal cord to the brain

release of epi/norepinephrine also stimulates the release of enkephalins and endorphins from the adrenal gland. They are the bodies natural version of opiods. Enkephalins act at the delta receptor and endorphins at Mu1 (same receptor opioids act at to modulate pain)

note: interestingly enough the adrenaline that blocks the alpha 2 receptors comes from the brain and is not just the circulating levels. Therefore it is commonly known as descending inhibition. This inhibition can also be activated by rubbing or massaging an injury. Think about it, when you stub your tow or bang your elbow what do you instinctively do - rub or massage it.

"Spinal iontophoresis of NA or intrathecal administration of a non-selective alpha agonists inhibits stimulus induced depolarization of nociceptive neurons [34, 82] [17]. Because alpha-1 agonists such as phenylephrine are without analgesic effects, the alpha-2 receptors were concluded to mediate the antinociceptive effect of NA."

Animal Instincts of the Human Body: A Psychological and Skeletal Muscular Analysis of Adrenaline on the Human Body | The People, Ideas, and Things (PIT) Journal

All the studies are cited

 

[veritasAequitas]

Learn the difference between adrenaline, endorphins and norepinephrine.

 

[jobo]

Learn the difference between adrenaline, endorphins and norepinephrine.

??? Epinephrine is another and more accurate name for adrenaline, but that text you copied with out reading also say that, and as its epinephorine the studies are about, that also adrenaline
epinephrine - Bing

 

[veritasAequitas]

??? Epinephrine is another and more accurate name for adrenaline, but that text you copied with out reading also say that, and as its epinephorine the studies are about, that also adrenaline
epinephrine - Bing

Why are you telling me things I already know?

 

[veritasAequitas]

Epinephrine vs Norepinephrine: Function, Uses, Deficiency, and Excess

 

[jobo]

Why are you telling me things I already know?

coz for some bizare reason you introduced endorphins into the mix,as a response to my article on epinephrine, so i naturally i assumed you were having some level of confusion. About the subject of the,articles

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No itS your strawman, I said you say people( ie me) who use The dictionary are wrong, as you have repeatedly, on the definition of pain compliance.

Um, nope. Still a strawman.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You want an article that's says stretching tendons past the point, that they have the elasticity to accomplish damages them ? Really ? How do you thiNK people damage tendons ?

No, that there's only pain if you've gone past the point of elasticity.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Of course they do, pressing a pressure points over loads the nervous system preventing it from working correctly, i.e. It's damaged, pressing the skin hard enough to accomplish the above, damages the skin,

You're just restating what you said before. Does pressing a nerve until it starts to hurt actually cause damage? Pain nerves (the nerves that transmit pain sensations) aren't necessarily tied to damage.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The issue at hand is damage, if you hurt AFTer it's because you have sustained damage, there is no other reason for The pain to continue other thAN damage had been caused

So, what is the damage they are reacting to when a nerve pressure point has been pressed?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes structural control is better ( in some circumstances)no one has disputed that, the issue was that you were claiming Pain compliance is structural control And structural control is pain compliance, and that link clearly says the two are different.

Um, no, that's not a claim he made.

An arm bar with no pain is structural control, an arm bar with pain is pain compliance, , which could be better, if what you want is compliance rather than just control,

If an arm bar without pain is structural control, then an arm bar with pain is BOTH structural control and pain compliance. Structural control doesn't go away because pain joins the equation.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Shouldn't structural control and pain compliance go hand in hand?

In some cases, but not in all. I can create structural control without pain compliance with an arm drag, and even with an arm bar (by changing where I apply pressure). And it's possible for someone to not feel the pain of a technique, so it may become structural only.

And I can create pain compliance without direct structure control (only getting whatever control the pain compliance gives me).

 

[jobo]

You're just restating what you said before. Does pressing a nerve until it starts to hurt actually cause damage? Pain nerves (the nerves that transmit pain sensations) aren't necessarily tied to damage.

You're just restating what you said before. Does pressing a nerve until it starts to hurt actually cause damage? Pain nerves (the nerves that transmit pain sensations) aren't necessarily tied to damage.

Yrs, the nervous system doesn't function correctly because it's damaged

 

[jobo]

No, that there's only pain if you've gone past the point of elasticity.

Bend your finger back until it runs out of movement, that the elasticity gone, no pain, bend it back another inch, pain

 

[jobo]

Um, nope. Still a strawman.

If you didn't say I was wrong theN m we agree I'm right,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I



Animal Instincts of the Human Body: A Psychological and Skeletal Muscular Analysis of Adrenaline on the Human Body | The People, Ideas, and Things (PIT) Journal

All the studies are cited

The study that statement is based on (Jensen, Sabine A., Arnoud Arntz, and Sabine Bouts. “Anxiety and Pain: Epinephrine-induced Hyperalgesia and Attentional Influences.” Pain 76 (1998) 309-316. SciVerse. Web. 4 April 2012.) states that there was a small increase in pain due to electrical stimulation, when epinephrine was injected peripherally. It's a pretty big leap to generalizing that to non-electrical stimulation and centrally-introduced (natural) epinephrine. For the only other pain they refer to in the abstract (heat-related pain), response was reduced. I don't have access to the full article, so can't see what they say about pressure-based pain (which was part of their study), but it not being mentioned in the abstract makes it likely there was either no differentiation or nothing usable in their data.

I don't see anything to alter my previous understanding that adrenaline load (especially coupled with other stress hormones) reduces pain response.

 

[Martial D]

Chokes don't hurt, but nobody is more compliant than an unconscious person(right Bill Cosby?)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yrs, the nervous system doesn't function correctly because it's damaged

Take a look at some of the information on this site: Pain is Weird: A Volatile, Misleading Sensation. It is entirely possible for pain to be generated by the brain - no injury required. That's why I keep asking what injury you're saying is occurring: we have sufficient evidence that it's entirely possible for pain to exist without injury, that we need to always ask what the injury is, rather than simply assuming it exists.

 

[veritasAequitas]

Yrs, the nervous system doesn't function correctly because it's damaged

That's not how pressure work, you're not damaging the nerve you've impinging it usually against bone or you are restricting blood flow.
You'd damage the tissue around it fore doing anything yo the nerve.
Your body sends main response to get you to stop doing it.