Kempo/Kenp is sub-directory of Karate?

[webpage20022003]

i don't know much about Kempo/Kenpo history here. I always think Kemp/Kenpo is another Karate style. Why you ask?

it doesn't matter where I look at it. A word "karate" always comes after "kempo/kenpo" word such as Kenpo Karate. Can Kenpo/Kempo stands ALONE?

or this 2 words go together?

Is Kenpo/kemp a sub-directory of Karate?

anybody has any ideas why it is like that?

 

[Kirk]

Far be it for a purle belt to repeat what he's heard, but I'll do it
anyway.

I heard that since kenpo/kempo wasn't a familiar term,
Mr Parker called it "Kenpo Karate" so that people would know
what it was, when they saw the sign from the street, and that
he wishes he'd never have done it.

I also heard Mr Sullivan say, "the origin is Chinese, the
style is karate, the system is kenpo".

 

[Sigung86]

Depending on which school of thought you subscribe to... The Tracys call it Kenpo Karate, using the old Kanji which means "China Hand" as opposed to empty hand. So in that particular instance it means something else, entirely.

The use of "Karate" as an early identifier is correct from the EPAK point of view.

In the original "I come to you .... etc"... The "Karate" is inserted in brackets so as to be understood or implied. It was, apparently, not meant to be spoken, but alas, every silver lining has a cloud and Kenpo has its Karate. :rofl:

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

Originally posted by Sigung86
The Tracys call it Kenpo Karate, using the old Kanji which means "China Hand" as opposed to empty hand. So in that particular instance it means something else, entirely.

Not just the Tracys. Check out the kanji on the IKKA patch. The "China Hand" characters are used there, too.:asian:

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh

 

[Touch Of Death]

Karate was a word Americans were familiar with so all martial arts were understood to be a Karate. Kenpo is Ed Parker's Take on Kempo. Kempo means way of the fist. So all martial arts could infact be types of Kenpo. ie. TKD kenpo, Karate Kenpo, Aikido Kenpo ect.
Another related word problem is the word Hindu. There is no such religion. It was a word used to describe the many tribal religions of India, from that elephant god all the way to Shiva Destrorer of worlds; its all hindu, except to its practitioners.

 

[KenpoDragon]

Ken= Hand or Fist
Po=Law

Thus Kenpo= Law of the hand or fist, not Way of the hand or fist.

Do= Way or method, look it up guys. Aikido=The way or method of harmony. Judo= The way or method gentleness/ the gentle way.

Anyways, Kenpo is derived from Chinese Kempo, taught to Mr.Parker by Professor Chow. In the chinese writing you see in many, but not all of the Kenpo patches it reads, Spirit of the dragon and the tiger, and chinese hand.

Karate= Empty Hands, a term that implies a empty handed form of self defense.

It's meaning is defined in the Kenpo Creed:

I come to with only "Karate" empty hands. I have no weapons; but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles or my honor...should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong, then here are my weapons, "Karate" my empty hands.

By the way the Chinese writing on the Crests/patches is a reminder of the originators of our Art-the Chinese, and represents respect, but not subservience to them. That is quoted from The Encyclopedia of Kenpo.

Hope that helps.

:asian: KenpoDragon

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by KenpoDragon
Ken= Hand or Fist
Po=Law

Thus Kenpo= Law of the hand or fist, not Way of the hand or fist.

Thanks Kenpo dragon,
you really showed me. Here I thought peoples ways were there laws. Perhaps I should alert the Ways and Means Commitee that they are completely misleading us with that tricky name of theirs.

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Thanks Kenpo dragon,
you really showed me. Here I thought peoples ways were there laws. Perhaps I should alert the Ways and Means Commitee that they are completely misleading us with that tricky name of theirs.

Whyn'tcha be cool Touch... Dragon was just helping out by taking all the stuff we said,and putting it in the reference of the Parker Kenpo Dictionary. Ain't nuthin' but a thang.

As one of my favorite Kenpoists in the world says...

Don't be haten! :asian:

Dan

 

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Whyn'tcha be cool Touch... Dragon was just helping out by taking all the stuff we said,and putting it in the reference of the Parker Kenpo Dictionary. Ain't nuthin' but a thang.

As one of my favorite Kenpoists in the world says...

Don't be haten! :asian:

Dan

Thanks Sigung86, you would think that TouchoDeath would have known that, but I guess some of us aren't as technical as others.

:asian: KenpoDragon

 

[Touch Of Death]

First of all I showed the lettering to a foreign exchange student I had a crush on in highschool an she interpreted the word to be "way". Second of all the spirit of the word is way. Law in english implies a context that is just wrong considering most martial arts of old have been practiced outside the law. Why are you being so sophist? Try looking up the word "way" I think you will find that its a pretty encompasing word.

 

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
First of all I showed the lettering to a foreign exchange student I had a crush on in highschool an she interpreted the word to be "way". Second of all the spirit of the word is way. Law in english implies a context that is just wrong considering most martial arts of old have been practiced outside the law. Why are you being so sophist? Try looking up the word "way" I think you will find that its a pretty encompasing word.

Alright Touch"o"Death I didn't want to embarrass you in front of all your Kenpo brothers, but you forced me too. This is a direct quote from Ed Parker's Encyclopedia of Kenpo.

KENPO- A modern term describing one of the more innovative systems of the Martial Arts which originally started in Hawaii, is heavily practiced in the Americas, and has now spread worldwide. KEN means fist, and PO means law. Because of Ed Parker's numerous contributions of innovative concepts and principles, many Kenpo practitioners are referring to modern day KENPO as PARKER KENPO.

Now if you don't believe me or SGM Parker than you are a complete fool. Why don't you go buy the Encyclopedia of Kenpo and stop wasting everybodies time with your I don't believe you because my ex-girlfriend said it was wrong. Do your homework before you start quoting for everyone what KENPO means. Well even though I've now embarrassed you I'm sure you'll have some snappy comeback like well my instructor said I was right too. Nah nah nah nah.

 

[tonbo]

"Nah nah nah nah"?

NOW you're getting *nasty*.......

:rofl:

:asian:

I like the "Don't be haten!" ref, though....

Peace--

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well the last time I checked Ed Parker was not a biblical character. I guess that japanese girl was just messing with me or maybe she couldn't read. Damn her!

 

[KenpoDragon]

Book of Kenpo: Chapter 1 vers 1, And God created Kenpo, and Kenpo was good.

 

[kenpochip]

KenpoDragon said:

Alright Touch"o"Death I didn't want to embarrass you in front of all your Kenpo brothers, but you forced me too.

I think by this point you DID want to embarrass him. Am I right?


KenpoDragon said:

Now if you don't believe me or SGM Parker than you are a complete fool. Why don't you go buy the Encyclopedia of Kenpo and stop wasting everybodies time with your I don't believe you because my ex-girlfriend said it was wrong. Do your homework before you start quoting for everyone what KENPO means. Well even though I've now embarrassed you I'm sure you'll have some snappy comeback like well my instructor said I was right too. Nah nah nah nah.

The "complete fool" stuff and the wasting time deal are a bit much. Translations tend to vary.

I think that just because some book (even the Encyclopedia of Kenpo) says something, doesn't do more than show that somebody thought it was correct. Words often have multiple meanings. Besides, Mr. Parker used the word "Analyzation" in some book titles. I personally don't think that is a word. I believe the word is "Analysis". I don't believe that Mr. Parker's main expertise was in the lexical realm.

I will ask somebody who can actually read the characters what the various legitimate interpretations might be. I don't have an opinion on that, but people ought to be able to disagree here without all the personal attacks.

KenpoChip

 

[kenpochip]

I had a Chinese person read the characters at

http://www.kenpousa.com/ke00001.htm
( I picked this site because the characters are large and easy to see. )

According to her:
The characters on the left side, from top to bottom mean

1. Fist

2. a. the way to do something

b. the art.

After she gave those possible meanings, I asked if it could mean "law". She said it could also mean law or rule (depending on context).

3. China

4. Hand


On the right side, top to bottom


5. Dragon

6. Tiger

7. Energy

8. Spirit


I don't know exactly how much of the meaning translates over to the same characters for the Japanese.

KenpoChip

 

[KenpoDragon]

KenpoChip, You dare call SGM Parker a BAD SPELLER!!!!! Now I'm gonna getcha!!!!!! Anyways, people's opinions of words are one thing, there actual meaning is a another thing all together. Look at the web site you posted, scroll down on the site and it clearly says KEN=FIST and PO=LAW. Now really, if you want to call KENPO- The way of your fist, then go ahead, but don't expect the rest of us to call it that. You are entitled to your opinion, but in the case of Touch"o"Death he wasn't stating his opinion, he was stating what he thought was fact. I had to correct my Kenpo brother. It wasn't out of anger, but out of trying to put him on the "right" track. Mr.Parker meant KENPO to mean LAW OF THE FIST. I'm sure if he wanted it to be called WAY OF THE FIST, then it would be in his books that way, don't you think??? Anyways you say (TOE-MAY-TOE) I say (TAH-MAH-TOE).

:yinyang: :asian: KenpoDragon

 

[kenpochip]

I was just reporting what the person read the characters as.
I don't really have an opinion other than that the characters themselves have multiple meanings. BTW , later, she sort of thought that the word "rule" might be better when combined with "fist".

I don't think it really matters what we call it, but now that we are on the subject....(insert drum roll here)

What does FIST LAW mean? Are we talking about natural laws, such as "these are the natural laws through which one can use the fist"?

Or is it saying something like "I rule by my fist. My fist is law! "

(Man, that sounds like a funny line from a karate/kung fu movie. Maybe they can put that in the Last Dragon Sequel)




KenpoChip

 

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by kenpochip

What does FIST LAW mean? Are we talking about natural laws, such as "these are the natural laws through which one can use the fist"?

Or is it saying something like "I rule by my fist. My fist is law! "

I guess "that" would depend on your opinion.

(Man, that sounds like a funny line from a karate/kung fu movie. Maybe they can put that in the Last Dragon Sequel)

Last Dragon sequel??? WHO?, WHAT?, WHERE?, WHEN?, and Why???








:asian: :asian: :asian: :asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Fistway Dragon (ha ha),
I see the gospel according to Ed Parker over rules Two different scources(women that actualy read Japanese) I guess the whole Idea of it being a way of thinking is just crazy. I will say this though, I will never purchase that encyclopedia you keep trying to push on me; so, pawn that stuff on someone else... brother.
love sean