Karate Kicks

[isshinryuronin5 5]

How does Shinto-Buddhism operate compared to Honshu etc? Do they share the Amaterasu legends as well? I would assume not, being that Amaterasu was closely linked to the proto-Heian imperial family to consolidate control over other provinces, and at that time Ryukyu was likely a kingdom with a different Shinto pantheon?

EDIT:
Apparently animistic Shintoism, but different kami, and more focused on ancestor worship. Very interesting.

Ryukyuan religion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ancestor worship was the major spiritual belief system on Okinawa, along with a simple kind of Shintoism where all natural things were respected. Buddhism was not popular, but a form of Chinese Confucianism was part of their culture. Female "priestesses" (Noro) from the aristocratic class organized various rituals and festivals for the community. Another female group (non-aristocratic) the Yuta, were fortunetellers and spiritual healers and involved in superstitious folklore. Numerology and dream interpretation was popular as well in the culture. Isshinryu founder T. Shimabuku was such a fortune teller known as Shimuchi. Spirituality and philosophical introspection was not a big part of their laid-back lifestyle. Seems like a simple world for them - farming, trading, family, low stress, just being a part of nature. I like it.

 

[Haruhiko1]

Ancestor worship was the major spiritual belief system on Okinawa, along with a simple kind of Shintoism where all natural things were respected. Buddhism was not popular, but a form of Chinese Confucianism was part of their culture. Female "priestesses" (Noro) from the aristocratic class organized various rituals and festivals for the community. Another female group (non-aristocratic) the Yuta, were fortunetellers and spiritual healers and involved in superstitious folklore. Numerology and dream interpretation was popular as well in the culture. Isshinryu founder T. Shimabuku was such a fortune teller known as Shimuchi. Spirituality and philosophical introspection was not a big part of their laid-back lifestyle. Seems like a simple world for them - farming, trading, family, low stress, just being a part of nature. I like it.

I like it too. I like that any significant feature in nature is a kami in Shintoism. Even insignificant, like pebbles.

I remember walking with my Japanese friend's son to his cafe on the way home from school, and he picked up a rock in the park that he liked.
When we arrived at the cafe he showed his father, who calmly bent down, clasped his son's hands, and explained to him that the rock didn't belong with or to him, and it should be returned to its home.

We walked back to where we found it, and he placed it back, clapped twice, bowed, then clapped once more.

It was a beautiful respect of nature and the "way things are naturally" that I hadn't seen before.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Takeda wasn't a person, it was a clan.

Yes and no.

It was an assumed name held by many people.

Takeda is a location, the clan ruled that area for more than 600 years, and there are about at least a dozen generations of samurai with the name Takeda until the clan's decline in the 16th century.

 

[Sammy Naur]

I believe those are all Japanese and not Okinawan arts. Japan did not officially annex Okinawa until after 1868 and the pre-1868 martial traditions of Japan and Okinawa were pretty different.

I don't know that I would call Aikido exactly ancient. It was developed by Ueshiba in the 1920s-1930s. It is primarily based on Daito Ryu, which goes back to the late 19th century. (The headmaster, Takeda, claimed a much older lineage for the art. But since there are no historical records of Daito Ryu prior to Takeda, it seems probable that he created it or "restored" it based on older arts.)

I'm not aware of any evidence that the techniques which went into Daito Ryu or Aikido were ever used by castle guards to disarm intruders. The question of what exactly the original context for those techniques might be is much debated.

Ugh, I really don't want to upset anyone but I do believe this whole trope about "castle guards" is a made up thing. I've heard this from Muay Thai boxers, kung fu people, Filipino martial artists, Korean MA enthusiasists...I think it's a lot of hot air.

Castle guards throughout history were armed with weapons. They wouldn't ever have needed to rely on arts like Aikido. The pointy end goes into the other man, as they say. A guard isn't throwing an enemy, they're bleeding them.

But you'll often find this theme in many martial arts legends, from Thailand to China to Russia. Always some elite hand to hand, secret BS. It just doesn't make sense or stand up to scrutiny. Japanese samurai literally carried swords around with them at all times. Non samurai carried pikes, spears, and later on, firearms.

I do think it's true that grappling arts have been part of military training for thousands of years, the historical record supports that no matter what ancient culture you look at, from Egypt to Greece to China and of course Japanese jujutsu (largely a dead set of arts other than Judo nowadays)

But Aikido is a 20th century invention, largely based on Judo (minus the jacket), which is based on historical Japanese arts for sure. And Aikido is still lacking a viable competition format for the most part, leaving it somewhat in the dust compared to BJJ and judo. We've discussed this before, and I have nothing but respect for a Aikido, but it's usefulness as a practical martial art? Not convinced, personally.

 

[Haruhiko1]

I'm not aware of any evidence that the techniques which went into Daito Ryu or Aikido were ever used by castle guards to disarm intruders.

If Daitō-ryu is the progenitor of aikido, then it can claim ancestry with the Minamoto clan, but I'm not sure to what extent this was embellished by Ueshiba.

They wouldn't ever have needed to rely on arts like Aikido. The pointy end goes into the other man, as they say. A guard isn't throwing an enemy, they're bleeding them.

The theory is that it's entirely defensive, to disarm an intruder. Some kata end with hands splayed, mimicking the drawing of a wakizashi or tanto to finally apprehended an assailant with the weapon drawn.

The Takeda clan uses the characters for "warrior-field", suggesting that the place may have been named to refer to the place where the clan or its retainers were assigned. Which came before which, I'm uncertain.

 

[isshinryuronin5 5]

I have dropped all high kicks, spinning kicks....anything I wouldnt use in a realistic self defence situation I have eliminated

Sounds like old Okinawan karate.

 

[isshinryuronin5 5]

Probably...I just cant see the point of doing things that dont work

It's not so much they don't work, but that unless one is very quick and skilled in those techniques, the risk involved in real combat is to be avoided. High kicks travel further (and take longer) and risk your leg getting grabbed. Also, they expose the groin to a counter kick. And as a general and wise rule, not good to turn your back to an opponent. One can do just as well in a fight avoiding techniques that put you in those positions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang115 146]

Probably...I just cant see the point of doing things that dont work

High kick training can maintain your body flexibility, and you won't age so quickly. The day that your hand can no longer be able to touch your kicking foot, the day that you are getting old.

 

[Gyakuto115 124]

I have dropped all high kicks, spinning kicks....anything I wouldnt use in a realistic self defence situation I have eliminated

WTF?! They’re the best, coolest aspects of the unarmed martial arts. Dispensing with them is sacrilegious and without them, nobody will admire you for your jumping back spinning kick. I just do them when walking down the street to buy milk and to impress young people who show their great appreciation of my skills with those new fangle words and expression youngsters use these days such as ”knob” and “dilweed”

If you want to be well prepare for self-defense, learn to box!

 

[windwalker099115 146]

High kick training can maintain your body flexibility, and you won't age so quickly. The day that your hand can no longer be able to touch your kicking foot, the day that you are getting old.

The key to not getting old is to die young.
Getting old a part of life — as is dying.

If one learns what it means to die well,
one may come to understand what it means to live well.

 

[windwalker099115 146]

It's not so much they don't work, but that unless one is very quick and skilled in those techniques, the risk involved in real combat is to be avoided. High kicks travel further (and take longer) and risk your leg getting grabbed. Also, they expose the groin to a counter kick. And as a general and wise rule, not good to turn your back to an opponent. One can do just as well in a fight avoiding techniques that put you in those positions.

Agree

like many things it's the context in which they work, and who they work on, that matters.

What was once called “full contact,” before MMA and cage matches, often required fighters to throw a minimum number of kicks. Kicking was required not because it was tactically superior — as noted kicking in a ring carries real risk for the fighter — but because the rules demanded it.

In the 70s :

Fighters had to throw a minimum number of kicks per round

Typically 6–8 (depending on year and sanction)
Kicks had to be above the waist
Failure could result in warnings or point deductions

Technique selection, often shaped by what brings revenue to the venues events are hosted in. Not necessarily things that are tactically advantageous .

 

[Prince_Alarming114]

It's one of those strange misconceptions. People talk about 'karate kicking' if they know very little about martial arts, but actually the kata contain very few leg techniques to jodan, although there are a few. Largely, I suspect, included for calisthenic purposes. Having said that, high kicks are still cool

 

[isshinryuronin5 5]

Agree

like many things it's the context in which they work, and who they work on, that matters.

What was once called “full contact,” before MMA and cage matches, often required fighters to throw a minimum number of kicks. Kicking was required not because it was tactically superior — as noted kicking in a ring carries real risk for the fighter — but because the rules demanded it.
T
In the 70s :

Fighters had to throw a minimum number of kicks per round

Typically 6–8 (depending on year and sanction)
Kicks had to be above the waist
Failure could result in warnings or point deductions

Technique selection, often shaped by what brings revenue to the venues events are hosted in. Not necessarily things that are tactically advantageous .-

The early days of American kick boxing (mid 70's) were not pretty. Karate guys wanting full contact put on boxing gloves (with little boxing skill) and tried to combine it with karate. The reason for the mandatory number of kicks was that kicks were not all that effective as they were easily blocked with large-gloved hands and low kicks were not permitted. Additionally, bouts were 3-5 rounds (karate matches being only 1) and kicking was a lot more tiring. So, the fighters had to be forced by rules to use kicks to justify the sport's name and impress the spectators. It took a number of years before it got more refined, the fighters formally training boxing and some muy thai as well as cardio.

 

[Gyakuto115 124]

One of my friends was receiving a beating from two men who he caught peeing in his driveway. The neighbour from across the road saw what was going on, ran out and felled both miscreants almost instantly with mawashigeri jodan. He was an ex-soldier who now runs a karate club.

High kicks do work well but some people don’t know how to apply them well.

 

[windwalker099115 146]

One of my friends was receiving a beating from two men who he caught peeing in his driveway. The neighbour from across the road saw what was going on, ran out and felled both miscreants almost instantly with mawashigeri jodan. He was an ex-soldier who now runs a karate club.

High kicks do work well but some people don’t know how to apply them well.

Interesting application demo...

Being an ex-soldier may have had more impact than the specific technique — used.
Mindset, timing, and decisiveness often play a much larger role than the particular technique used.
Those factors tend to show up strongly in people with that kind of background.

 

[Same Trick60 11]

WTF?! jumping back spinning kick. I just do them when walking down the street to buy milk

How do you get to the milk shop jumping back all time ?

 

[Gyakuto115 124]

How do you get to the milk shop jumping back all time ?

I process with my back in the direction of the milk shop (soy milk, of course). Crossing busy roads is a real issue and I’ve had a few near misses!