Karate fight plans

FeralKenpo

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Are there any specific karate fight plans or strategies that karateka use when they fight? Are there different strategies in Shotokan as opposed to Kyokushin, Gojo Ryu etc.?
 

Andrew Green

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Are there different strategies in Shotokan as opposed to Kyokushin

Absolutely, those two are pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. Shotokan is about the first hit, Kyokushin fighters will often take a hit to deliver a harder one.
 
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FeralKenpo

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Absolutely, those two are pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. Shotokan is about the first hit, Kyokushin fighters will often take a hit to deliver a harder one.
So Kyokushin karateka allow themselves to be struck so that they can set up a harder strike? Interesting o_0
 

dancingalone

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Classical goju seeks to close in tightly with the opponent to strike with a variety of attacks, including grabs or tears to delicate tissue areas. Sanchin is practiced to help develop some resistance to damage to one's torso as part of this strategy to get in close. There's abundant sweeping and throwing too.

Of course, sport karate is another story. If you watch tournament fights between goju or shito-ryu or shotokan, etc, they tend to look all alike because of the rule set.
 

terryl965

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All of them have one common thing and that is to survive if need be.
 

jarrod

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from what i can see from my limited enshin training, the idea is to get in the opponent's blind spot, sweep them, & finish them with strikes.

jf
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Are there any specific karate fight plans or strategies that karateka use when they fight? Are there different strategies in Shotokan as opposed to Kyokushin, Gojo Ryu etc.?
If you mean tournament fights, then it would be dependent upon the rule set in question.

Daniel
 
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FeralKenpo

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If you mean tournament fights, then it would be dependent upon the rule set in question.

Daniel

I was not referring to tournament fights. I'm asking more about in a self defense situation, no rules. Well I like some rules when sparring, I don't want to ACTUALLY die when I train! o_0

All good answers!

I'm asking this question because I want to train in an art/school that trains harder. I enjoy my training at my dojo aswell as the art that I currently train in, but I feel that I need harder training. We don't do enough drills or sparring for me, and the sparring contact is not heavy enough. I feel that we have no specific fight plan, just a bunch of different techniques(which are good). I want to find a school/art that trains hard and effectively. (I know it is generally the school not the style) I don't want to train in mma mainly because I don't want to actually compete(well probably not), but I want to train harder.
I just recently won in the grand championships at a local tournament in kata, so my kata is pretty good. (first tournament!)

But my sparring and grappling isn't very good.

I love kata but I want more live training o_0 !

I guess I went a little bit off topic. I should have just put that in the OP.
 
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Moebius

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Are there any specific karate fight plans or strategies that karateka use when they fight? Are there different strategies in Shotokan as opposed to Kyokushin, Gojo Ryu etc.?

It has been my experience that in regards to self-defense techniques there is a lot of mixing between the arts. When I trained in Okinawan Kenpo we learned wrist locks and arm bars and throws that could be seen as coming from Judo or Ju jitsu. I think it would be hard to find a dojo that truly did not incorporate any outside arts in regards to fighting and self defense.

That being said, if you feel deficient in some aspect of self defense perhaps you should try some cross training. I am a big fan of cross training, but only after mastering the basics of your original art first. Just my 2 cents.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I was not referring to tournament fights. I'm asking more about in a self defense situation, no rules. Well I like some rules when sparring, I don't want to ACTUALLY die when I train! o_0

All good answers!

I'm asking this question because I want to train in an art/school that trains harder. I enjoy my training at my dojo aswell as the art that I currently train in, but I feel that I need harder training. We don't do enough drills or sparring for me, and the sparring contact is not heavy enough. I feel that we have no specific fight plan, just a bunch of different techniques(which are good). I want to find a school/art that trains hard and effectively. (I know it is generally the school not the style) I don't want to train in mma mainly because I don't want to actually compete(well probably not), but I want to train harder.
I just recently won in the grand championships at a local tournament in kata, so my kata is pretty good. (first tournament!)

But my sparring and grappling isn't very good.

I love kata but I want more live training o_0 !

I guess I went a little bit off topic. I should have just put that in the OP.
Well, if it is hard training you are after, Kyokushin training is highly regarded, even by those who generally do not care for TMA.

As for your sparring and grappling, are they not good in relation to others in your class or on the competitions circuit? If it is in relation to your peers, I would discuss it with your instructor and asked to be pushed harder before changing styles. Also ask him to evaluate your shortcomings and how to fix them. It could be that hard training is not your problem.

And congrats on the Kata first place!

Daniel
 
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FeralKenpo

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Well, if it is hard training you are after, Kyokushin training is highly regarded, even by those who generally do not care for TMA.

As for your sparring and grappling, are they not good in relation to others in your class or on the competitions circuit? If it is in relation to your peers, I would discuss it with your instructor and asked to be pushed harder before changing styles. Also ask him to evaluate your shortcomings and how to fix them. It could be that hard training is not your problem.

And congrats on the Kata first place!

Daniel

Thank you Dan, I will take your advice.
I am pretty good in comparison to my peers, but the school is very small, so I don't have many. The sparring and grappling is scarce. So that contributes to why I feel inadequate. My instructor has been practicing for 35 years, so he has alot to offer in many ways and I'm glad he is my instructor. So I'm not putting him down in any way, I just want more 'hands on' training so to speak. I've tried atleast one class at most of the schools around where I live and I have stuck with this school because the instructor's technique really amazes me.

So in a nutshell I love my instruction just not enough drills or hands on stuff.
I practice almost every waking hour of my life, and I've been doing that for years. :)
If I do switch styles it won't be any time soon(years), life's busy and full of surprises. ;)
 

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FeralKenpo, if you want hard street based training, go to a Kajukenbo school. It is about are hard as I have ever seen when it comes to training.
 
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FeralKenpo

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FeralKenpo, if you want hard street based training, go to a Kajukenbo school. It is about are hard as I have ever seen when it comes to training.

I would but there are no schools in my area(Milford, NH).
Kajukenbo would be awesome.
 

searcher

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I would but there are no schools in my area(Milford, NH).
Kajukenbo would be awesome.


Do you train at Hudson Kenpo Karate?

What are your options in your area? How far are you willing to drive to train? You might be able to find another place if you are willing to travel.
 
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FeralKenpo

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Do you train at Hudson Kenpo Karate?

What are your options in your area? How far are you willing to drive to train? You might be able to find another place if you are willing to travel.

No I don't train at Hudson Kenpo Karate. I would probably drive 45 minutes tops(gas is so expensive). I live in Milford, NH.
 

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Couple of little points, thought I'd stick my oar in and see what happens. Bear with me as I haven't posted on here in a while and me writing is a little rusty.

Classical goju seeks to close in tightly with the opponent to strike with a variety of attacks, including grabs or tears to delicate tissue areas. Sanchin is practiced to help develop some resistance to damage to one's torso as part of this strategy to get in close.

Would you say that the only purpose of Sanchin is to build bodily resistance? If so I would have to disagree. Based on my experience of kata it was designed for the sole purpose of hiding the execution of deathly attacks to the opponent. All kata was designed for this purpose and this purpose alone. As far as I am led to believe there is no other reason for kata to exist. All karate can be found in kata.

Okinawan Kenpo we learned wrist locks and arm bars and throws that could be seen as coming from Judo or Ju jitsu

Karate isn't restricted to simple strikes and so called 'blocks'. It is all encompassing. There are strikes, throws, chokes, locks controls, takedowns, control of anatomically vulnerable points and a miriad of other things in kata. All you have to do is look, that is the kakushi waza, the gokui.

My instructor has been practicing for 35 years, so he has alot to offer in many ways and I'm glad he is my instructor. So I'm not putting him down in any way, I just want more 'hands on' training so to speak. I've tried atleast one class at most of the schools around where I live and I have stuck with this school because the instructor's technique really amazes me.

On a personal note, I started with Judo at high school, then moved into JuJitsu a year or so later, then about 6 months on I found the dojo I'm at now. I been training Okinawan Tode ever since. Different people train in different things, but that's not what's important in martial arts. The real important thing, that almost everyone overlooks is whether they're being given crap on a plate. If people advertise themselves as being the best and ultimate at everything and that you too will become a man of steel, then you're beeing fed (to put it politely) horsecrap. If they say something along the lines of we'll give you some skills, but it's up to you what you do with em, that's a bit better. If they say this is what we have, train if you want, but we will tell you why as well as how, then you may have struck gold. Just find somewhere you can ask questions. if your questions are welcomed and you recieve adequate replies then stick it through, if not then move on. If you really want the 'it' that martial artists aspire to (look into kata and the word shimeijurasan) then there are no lengths you wouldn't go to for it.

Anyways, I hope I helped some there, told ya'll I was a bit rusty.
 

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Would you say that the only purpose of Sanchin is to build bodily resistance? If so I would have to disagree. Based on my experience of kata it was designed for the sole purpose of hiding the execution of deathly attacks to the opponent. All kata was designed for this purpose and this purpose alone. As far as I am led to believe there is no other reason for kata to exist. All karate can be found in kata.



Karate isn't restricted to simple strikes and so called 'blocks'. It is all encompassing. There are strikes, throws, chokes, locks controls, takedowns, control of anatomically vulnerable points and a miriad of other things in kata. All you have to do is look, that is the kakushi waza, the gokui.

I think you may be overstating the idea of interpreting kata. Kata exist for a number of purposes, in both traditional and more modern martial arts. Some contain a catalog of techniques that can be decoded from them; others teach principles. Still others are simply exercises for a group to do as a form of practice.

Remember that when the Okinawan karate arts were introduced to Japan, they were altered and elements invented to satisfy the Japanese mindset. I've noticed a tendency over the last decade or two of people to put almost too much emphasis on forms and kata as being some sort of ultimate repository of the "real" martial arts. To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a punch is just a punch!
 

chinto

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there are some differences in the doctrine of combat between some of the styles of Okinawan karate, that said all of the traditional and old styles have strikes, locks, throws, and brakes as well as sweeps and most any thing you can think of. the Okinawans developed the art of Karate to defend themselves in life and death encounters. It was not developed for some kind of prize fight of sport.
 

Hyper_Shadow

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I think you may be overstating the idea of interpreting kata. Kata exist for a number of purposes, in both traditional and more modern martial arts. Some contain a catalog of techniques that can be decoded from them; others teach principles. Still others are simply exercises for a group to do as a form of practice.

Remember that when the Okinawan karate arts were introduced to Japan, they were altered and elements invented to satisfy the Japanese mindset. I've noticed a tendency over the last decade or two of people to put almost too much emphasis on forms and kata as being some sort of ultimate repository of the "real" martial arts. To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a punch is just a punch!

Good point, well spoken. I wouldn't consider kata the ultimate repository for tode, however, so much has been lost or watered down over the years that it is the only true source of undiluted knowledge. I still stick by what I say when I say you can find all of martial arts in kata. And I have to disagree with the use of kata as just an exercise. If that is taught anywhere (in terms of okinawan tode) it is categorically wrong. Kata was made so the poor could practice without fear of being killed by samurai who stole their land. These techniques were then employed to kill samurai and bandits too.

there are some differences in the doctrine of combat between some of the styles of Okinawan karate, that said all of the traditional and old styles have strikes, locks, throws, and brakes as well as sweeps and most any thing you can think of. the Okinawans developed the art of Karate to defend themselves in life and death encounters. It was not developed for some kind of prize fight of sport.

To put it simply, that's what I should have said. The stark difference between true tode jutsu and the martial arts that it seems to categorised with is vast.
 
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