Karate drop outs

[Eyedoc]

I'm not sure I have enough experience to comment, but what the heck I will anyway. It seems that the folks who drop out due to the amount left to learn to get to black are focused on the wrong things. The belts are really nothing more than bragging rights (don't get me wrong, I want that black belt), but I think that if you are in love with the art itself it becomes something you don't quit. The belts are just something that come with the territory. I want to learn as much about the art as possible even if my belt is just J.C. Penny...$3.19 (sorry bad Karate Kid reference).

As an aside, I am a doctor and see similar statistics in my field with regard to dropouts in school. Those who take tests just get a grade versus those who study to learn the material. It gets frustrating to those who are "test takers" because there is never an end to taking the tests.

 

[tshadowchaser]

A good question is how long people keep teaching before they get tired of teaching and quit teaching?

I often ask myslf this same question. It can be tiresome teaching white belts for year after year. It is verry disapointing to teach someone for years , watching them mature, then have them just disapear, for whatever reason.
The body also get older and recovers a little slower from what once we might not even notice but now it is a nagging sore/bruise/injury.
I think good studens who practice , learn, and love the art are what keep a instructor teaching. Students who only learn so they can show off or impress others discourage instuctors.
There comes a time (I think) when instructors only want to instruct advanced students or even advanced instructors. In these cases new ground can be explored and the finer points can be worked on more and in depth.

just my thought folks

 

[gojukylie]

My brother dropped out when he was younger because he didn't understand the principles behind what he was doing. It was only when he got into his mid 20's that he realised and started training again now loving every minute. I sometimes you just need to mature enough to understand the meaning of it and it seems that case with many juniors.

 

[conejoblackbelt2028]

From what I see at my Shōtōkan Karate dojo, people tend to drop out as black belts (or even lower than that) for many reasons. Back in 2020, people left due to COVID19 and never came back; people who've trained in the past and left, have nearly forgotten everything about karate. A friend of mine left during 2020, and has forgotten everything, though she remembers the names of the katas I've shown her. Some people could be busy, as with high school and college students who have other things going on, and can't focus on training. Sometimes people just simply disappear for their own reasons, or like everyone else has said, students have quitted because they don't like karate anymore (I don't exactly know if that has happened in my dojo before). People even leave when they move to other places, and find new dojos.
-An

 

[Gyakuto107]

From what I see at my Shōtōkan Karate dojo, people tend to drop out as black belts (or even lower than that) for many reasons. Back in 2020, people left due to COVID19 and never came back; people who've trained in the past and left, have nearly forgotten everything about karate.

I don’t think these people should’ve been awarded their Dan grade. Getting to shodan is such a difficult, tiring, all-consuming activity (literally blood, sweat and tears) that one builds, at the very least, an effort justification mindset and to just throw that away suggests the effort to obtain the grade wasn’t very great and perhaps the grade was undeserved…perhaps.

A friend of mine left during 2020, and has forgotten everything, though she remembers the names of the katas I've shown her.

I find that hard to believe. I still remember kata from 40 years ago (for the most part). They’re ingrained through repetition. If I sit in front of a keyboard or pick up a guitar (which is very rare these days) I find, that due to previous effort and repetition, my fingers seem to know where to go and out pops ‘Italian Concerto’ (only the adagio!) or ‘Walk this Way’. Sometimes it’s a weird sensation…

Some people could be busy, as with high school and college students who have other things going on, and can't focus on training.

Those are golden ages of free-time! Things get much busier when you start a career and family.

 

[PhotonGuy7]

These are some statistic thingies my sensei was telling me about the other night. Just thought they were interesting and i would share them(as long as I remember correctly.

The highest belt level that the most students drop out from training is black. Simply because that was there goal and they feel a black belt may make them invincible and that that is all they need.

The 2nd highest belt level that most students drop out from is green. My sensei had a good explenation for this but I forgot it, im pretty sure it had something to do with how the training changes at green.

The third is brown. Because here is where some people feel they are right there, just nudging the black belt but can't do it. They see the things they have to do to get it and go "I can't do that!"

Don't take any of this stuff to seriusly because it's biased by my memory and im not sure if it just applies to my style or if it includes chito-ryu and other styles.

I would have to say it's the opposite. From my experience very rarely do students drop out right after making black belt. On the contrary when you do make black belt you realize there is so much more out there, there is so much more to learn, and you want to see just how much better you can get. You know you've gone far and you want to see just how much further you can go. I have occasionally seen students drop out right after making black belt but I would say that about 90% of all students who do make black belt keep going.

As brown is often the color right before black, brown belt students know they're almost there so they want to keep going and get there.

Green belt is usually an intermediate belt so some students who make it to green belt decide that they've gotten to that level in Karate and that it's time to move on so they drop out while other students choose to keep going.

I would have to say the most common belt rank for students to drop out at is either white belt or the belt right after white belt which is often a yellow belt. They try it out to see what it's like and then they decide Karate is not their thing so they drop out at white belt, or they stop at yellow belt because they want to go up one belt before dropping out.

 

[conejoblackbelt2028]

New thing: I'm guessing most black belts stop due to the immense stress and pressure that comes with the responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I recently almost wanted to quit due to stress as a shōdan, and just realized that my anxiety mostly came from being around large groups of people (especially in my adult class, which mainly has so many brown belts), where I've felt exposed and insecure. (I don't know if this is relevant, but it's my experience)

 

[PhotonGuy7]

In our school, the ranks go: white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, 3 levels of brown and then black. I heard my instructor say one time that most people quit around purple- they get that far and then figure it is too much to remember past that or something.
I think what is said about the black belts is true- too many think they reach black and that is it- you know it all!! Unfortunately, right after getting my black belt is when I got married and moved away from my studio- but I still practice on my own as much as possible and go up to the studio once per month faithfully.
In our school, my instructor always asks the kids in the kids class what a black belt is and the answer is something I want to pass along here cuz I love it:

"A black belt is just a white belt who never quits"

I view my black belt as just the beginning and I hope to never have to quit learning!! :asian: :karate:

I agree that the black belt is just the beginning but there's some people on this forum who would disagree. One person in particular, I forget who, said something along the lines that if black belt is the beginning than before the beginning is nothing.

 

[PhotonGuy7]

New thing: I'm guessing most black belts stop due to the immense stress and pressure that comes with the responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I recently almost wanted to quit due to stress as a shōdan, and just realized that my anxiety mostly came from being around large groups of people (especially in my adult class, which mainly has so many brown belts), where I've felt exposed and insecure. (I don't know if this is relevant, but it's my experience)

Well the thing is, when you're a brown belt, particularly if you're brown high, you're supposed to start taking on the responsibility that comes with being a black belt or at least you're supposed to get a taste of it, that way you will be prepared for the black belt. When you're a brown belt you're being groomed for the black belt so as a brown belt you're supposed to work on dealing with the stress and pressure so that you can deal with it when you do become a black belt. A black belt who can't handle the stress and pressure and responsibility hasn't prepared properly when they were a brown belt. When you're a brown belt you're supposed to work on doing everything at a black belt level including the stress, pressure, and responsibility. After all, we're talking about brown belt not white belt or green belt. Brown belt is when you really need to start preparing to be a black belt, that way you can handle it when you get there.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf106]

From what I see at my Shōtōkan Karate dojo, people tend to drop out as black belts (or even lower than that) for many reasons. Back in 2020, people left due to COVID19 and never came back; people who've trained in the past and left, have nearly forgotten everything about karate. A friend of mine left during 2020, and has forgotten everything, though she remembers the names of the katas I've shown her. Some people could be busy, as with high school and college students who have other things going on, and can't focus on training. Sometimes people just simply disappear for their own reasons, or like everyone else has said, students have quitted because they don't like karate anymore (I don't exactly know if that has happened in my dojo before). People even leave when they move to other places, and find new dojos.
-An

Is your friend also 16/were they 10 in 2020? If I stopped training at 10 I don't think I'd remember any katas either.

The rest of what you said I agree with; I think it comes down to a matter of priority. There's always time for something, but if there's something else that's more important, or that you enjoy more, that's what will take priority. Martial arts was my priority, so I ended up quitting basketball, but still trained MA, while others were probably the exact opposite.

And regarding the black belt thing, a lot of people view black belt as the goal, they were ready to quit half a year to a year before they got it, but wanted to push through so they can say they accomplished it. Sometimes unconsciously. Then once they achieve that goal, the motivation disappears.

 

[Fungus97]

I agree the focus of the motivation is a key. I dont care one bit about belts. I try to just overcome and improve myself. Last session I finally fond a flow in switching between left and right kicking that I never felt before. Kicking with the non-dominant leg has always been the whole grail for me, as it was always more "mechanical" without feeling, now its starting to come with more harmonoy and swtiching between and it was amazing feeling. That is thanks to my patient friend mr heavy bag.

About muscle memory, I think some thinks never go away, the other day i found on of those toys that was popular in the 80s, the rubiks snake, and i havent touched it in probably 40 years, and as soon as it was in hand rolled the ball out of muscle memory without looking in not soo many seconds, It was amazing, it was all there and came up when it was in my hand. I wouldnt have thought that i remembered it by some muscle memory sticks for a looong time. I still remember some wrestling throws from when i was 8! Although I dont practice it.

 

[Gyakuto107]

I agree the focus of the motivation is a key. I dont care one bit about belts. I try to just overcome and improve myself. Last session I finally fond a flow in switching between left and right kicking that I never felt before. Kicking with the non-dominant leg has always been the whole grail for me, as it was always more "mechanical" without feeling, now its starting to come with more harmonoy and swtiching between and it was amazing feeling. That is thanks to my patient friend mr heavy bag.

That’s what active, repetitive practise brings!

About muscle memory, I think some thinks never go away, the other day i found on of those toys that was popular in the 80s, the rubiks snake, and i havent touched it in probably 40 years, and as soon as it was in hand rolled the ball out of muscle memory without looking in not soo many seconds, It was amazing, it was all there and came up when it was in my hand. I wouldnt have thought that i remembered it by some muscle memory sticks for a looong time. I still remember some wrestling throws from when i was 8! Although I dont practice it.

I rarely play guitar these days but when I do pick one up, and I can’t remember how to play something I just try and almost by magic my fingers go to the right place on the fretboard; “WALK THIS WAY! TALK THIS WAY!…”

 

[conejoblackbelt2028]

Is your friend also 16/were they 10 in 2020? If I stopped training at 10 I don't think I'd remember any katas either.

No, my friend isn't 16. Some of my friends who were in karate before COVID are 18 and/or in their 20s right now (they were in middle/high school during 2020). When I asked them about kata last time, they kinda blanked out or something, and even showing them kihon moves didn't exactly help either. One of my friends is ~22 years old and remembers both kihon and kumite, but has forgotten all kata. Makes sense that people would completely forget kata after stopping at 10. Thanks COVID