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Thank you jks, I am blessed to be working with a lot of great people.
 

Chrisoro

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Looks like you are a good instructor that are able to teach effectively at a distance. Kudos for that! :)
 

Chrisoro

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However, I'm a bit worried about this statement I found on your site: "We at Hapkido Online and at the Tactical Hapkido Alliance are in fact Christian based."

I hope this does not mean that you incorporate christianity in some flavor into the Hapkido training?
 

Danny T

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However, I'm a bit worried about this statement I found on your site: "We at Hapkido Online and at the Tactical Hapkido Alliance are in fact Christian based."

I hope this does not mean that you incorporate christianity in some flavor into the Hapkido training?
From what I read I believe he was referencing meditation and being a christian based organization the concern some christians have toward mediation. Also that eastern philosophy is of interest but should not supplant their fundamental Christian faith. He also states they find that most eastern philosophy to fall under the realm of universal truth and generally mirrors the philosophy presented in the Bible.
 

Jaeimseu

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However, I'm a bit worried about this statement I found on your site: "We at Hapkido Online and at the Tactical Hapkido Alliance are in fact Christian based."

I hope this does not mean that you incorporate christianity in some flavor into the Hapkido training?
Just curious, but why would it matter? Especially if he's up front about it.


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Chrisoro

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Because if he is mixing hapkido with christianity (which I am not saying that he does or doesn't) he isn't just teaching Hapkido, but is also using Hapkido as a way to push his religion and all it's baggage(which was neither ever a part of, nor relevant for teaching Hapkido) onto others. In my mind, that is misuse of and disrespect for Hapkido, and I would react the same way if someone would mix politcs with their chosen martial art. "Hey! We are a Republican-based dojo!".

Yes, I know it has been done before, and no, of course I wouldn't dream of suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to do so, but at the same time I feel no reason for keeping quiet about the fact that it bothers me.

2chuglc.jpg
 

jks9199

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Because if he is mixing hapkido with christianity (which I am not saying that he does or doesn't) he isn't just teaching Hapkido, but is also using Hapkido as a way to push his religion and all it's baggage(which was neither ever a part of, nor relevant for teaching Hapkido) onto others. In my mind, that is misuse of and disrespect for Hapkido, and I would react the same way if someone would mix politcs with their chosen martial art. "Hey! We are a Republican-based dojo!".

Yes, I know it has been done before, and no, of course I wouldn't dream of suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to do so, but at the same time I feel no reason for keeping quiet about the fact that it bothers me.

If he's upfront about it, and openly informs prospective students... Where's the problem? You could honestly argue that many Asian martial arts sneak forms of Buddhist, Shinto, or other religious practice in with their training hall etiquette and layout... How is openly informing someone, perhaps even reassuring some potential students that they won't be forced to participate in Asian religious practices, that your club maintains a Christian atmosphere disrespectful?
 

Jaeimseu

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Because if he is mixing hapkido with christianity (which I am not saying that he does or doesn't) he isn't just teaching Hapkido, but is also using Hapkido as a way to push his religion and all it's baggage(which was neither ever a part of, nor relevant for teaching Hapkido) onto others. In my mind, that is misuse of and disrespect for Hapkido, and I would react the same way if someone would mix politcs with their chosen martial art. "Hey! We are a Republican-based dojo!".

Yes, I know it has been done before, and no, of course I wouldn't dream of suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to do so, but at the same time I feel no reason for keeping quiet about the fact that it bothers me.

2chuglc.jpg
It's pretty clearly stated on the website. I don't see it as any different than someone attending a Christian school. No one is being ambushed with anything.


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Gnarlie

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I would be intrigued to know what difference it makes on a practical level. How is Christian training different from Atheist training? Personally I don't believe in God, but that has no bearing on how I train martial arts.
 

Chrisoro

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I think it's more correct to talk about the difference between religious training and secular training, and the difference would be that the last kind of training would focus only on training the art in question , and not try to convert anyone to ones own set of believes, which is what one is in fact doing, although by implicit means, if one is inserting references to it during the training.

I'm a secular atheist myself, and I know I would never send my kids to train at a school that flaunts its religious base, however, I wouldn't send them to a Hapkido school branding itself as "Atheist Hapkido", and run by Richard Dawkins either. My point is that there is a time and place for all, and in my view (which I know others doesn't neccesarily share), martial arts practice isn't the place to try to convert other people to ones own believes(whatever it is), using implicit means or otherwise.

Martial arts should, in my opinion, be something that brings people together despite differences in beliefs and politics, not something that devides them along those same lines.

Again, I'm not saying that this is what Instructor does at his school, as I don't know to what degree(if any) he lets his his personal faith(which I have no problems with him having) come trough in his trainig. But I have seen examples of such things as Christian Karate and Muslim Wing Chun, in which one had a lot of references to the religions in the training, and where non believers would be met with pretty cold shoulders. Which is ofcourse their right, but not something I have to like either.
 
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JowGaWolf

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From what I read I believe he was referencing meditation and being a christian based organization the concern some christians have toward mediation.
This is a really big challenge for Kung Fu schools. We lost a lot of students because parents thought that our shrine was all about bowing and worshiping another god. It's really sad because to my knowledge none of those people have ever asked why we were bowing to the shrine.

We train in a christian school and that was one of the big questions that was asked about our kung fu. I didn't bother explaining what the bowing was all about because even if the owners of the school understand, it doesn't mean that the staff, kids, or parents will understand. There are a lot of misconceptions about what martial arts is really about and unfortunately some people would rather just make assumptions about it instead of actually asking. I know parents who think that kids who take martial arts are the ones getting into fights. Stuff is just crazy.
 

JowGaWolf

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I would be intrigued to know what difference it makes on a practical level. How is Christian training different from Atheist training? Personally I don't believe in God, but that has no bearing on how I train martial arts.
It doesn't make a difference in training unless you are in an environment where most of your customers are Christian and don't understand what martial arts is really about. I'm a Christian and my religion doesn't come to mind when I train. When I'm training I'm focused on connecting my mind to body so that I'm more in tuned with myself.
 

Gnarlie

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It doesn't make a difference in training unless you are in an environment where most of your customers are Christian and don't understand what martial arts is really about.

Do you mean in the sense that there might be a view that practice of martial arts is somehow un-Christian? Is Christian faith so delicate, so insecure that simple participation in an activity or appreciation of a different culture might lead one from the path of righteousness or be frowned upon in the peer group?

Surely with true faith, it shouldn't matter?

I'm a Christian and my religion doesn't come to mind when I train. When I'm training I'm focused on connecting my mind to body so that I'm more in tuned with myself.

The same for me. There are Buddhist, Taoist and Confucianist elements to Taekwondo practice, but practice of Taekwondo does not make me any of those things. I take great benefit from meditation in terms of anxiety control and relaxation. That doesn't make me a Zen / Seon Buddhist.

Regardless of how little new starters might know about martial art practice, it pains me that their religious belief might prevent them from trying new things and educating themselves.
 

Tez3

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"The hidden nature of the martial arts
The martial arts were at first passed on by way of secret groups who tried to protect the knowledge of their practices from others. Note that the term `occult' means `hidden'. Demonic spirits desire to be hidden because they belong to the darkness.

Although the martial arts have now become widely known in the west, their spiritual basis has been largely still hidden, and people are initiated into the practices without being told about the occult basis. The development of the martial arts as sports is part of this hidden nature to try and make them more acceptable to the modern mind.

There are only two kinds of spiritual power - the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. There is only one God, and any spiritual power from any other source that is not attributed to God is actually in rebellion against God, and belongs to Satan. Jesus said, "Anyone who is not for me is really against me" [Matthew 12:30] Jesus said this in the context of being accused of having the power of Beelzebul (Satan) behind his healing and deliverance ministry. The supernatural power of God may look similar to the power of Satan to some people, but the two are actually opposed to each other.

Because of the combination of various elements of religion, the martial arts have developed into a very powerful and subtle demonic art that should be seen for what it really is.

The first step to dealing with the influence of the martial arts is to expose their true nature. "Have nothing to do with the worthless things that people do, things that belong to the darkness. Instead, bring them out to the light. And when all things are brought out to the light then their true nature is clearly revealed; for anything that is clearly revealed becomes light." [Ephesians 5:11,13-14]."

"What To Do With The Martial Arts
The Bible makes it clear that we should have nothing to do with the occult; therefore we should have nothing to do with any of the martial arts. "


That load of old rubbish is from here Exposing Martial Arts | 1 - VMTC - International from what I've seen and read they aren't the only ones who think like this.
Jewish thought is that bowing to someone out of respect is fine and should be done, bowing as an act of worship shouldn't be done. Martial arts are considered good by the 'people of the Book', a shame that Xtians should be so weird about it, perhaps they should take up Jewjitsu.
 

JowGaWolf

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Do you mean in the sense that there might be a view that practice of martial arts is somehow un-Christian? Is Christian faith so delicate, so insecure that simple participation in an activity or appreciation of a different culture might lead one from the path of righteousness or be frowned upon in the peer group?

Surely with true faith, it shouldn't matter?
1st question: Yes
2nd question: Is Christian faith so delicate? depends on who the person is. Some people have stronger faith than other. Some people go overboard with faith where it turns into oppression. Some people have strong faith but an misinformed understanding of what martial arts is. I consider myself as a Christian with strong faith, but just because I have strong faith doesn't mean that I'll hang out with people who I think worship the devil. Search youtube for "Martial Arts Evil" and you'll see how much misinformation is going on.

The same for me. There are Buddhist, Taoist and Confucianist elements to Taekwondo practice, but practice of Taekwondo does not make me any of those things. I take great benefit from meditation in terms of anxiety control and relaxation. That doesn't make me a Zen / Seon Buddhist.

Regardless of how little new starters might know about martial art practice, it pains me that their religious belief might prevent them from trying new things and educating themselves.
Meditation is good for the body and mind to the point where doctors recommend it. Even though some religions use meditation. Meditation by itself is not a religion any more than reading a book. I feel the same about people who are just starting martial arts who let their assumptions stop them from something that is actually healthy for them. Some people just have to inject belief and religion into everything where there is no need and it does more harm than good.
 

JowGaWolf

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"
That load of old rubbish is from here Exposing Martial Arts | 1 - VMTC - International from what I've seen and read they aren't the only ones who think like this.
Jewish thought is that bowing to someone out of respect is fine and should be done, bowing as an act of worship shouldn't be done. Martial arts are considered good by the 'people of the Book', a shame that Xtians should be so weird about it, perhaps they should take up Jewjitsu.
Bowing is another thing that is misunderstood in the U.S. so naturally Chinese and Japanese Martial arts are going get a lot of pain from people who think bowing means that you are submitting to another human and that humans should only submit to God. The first thing that I tell people who are interested in Kung Fu is that it's fun and a good way to stay in shape. The second is usually that our fighting system is a real self-defense system. Then I have to try to close the sale by explaining the bows that we do and how each bow means something different and that they are done out of respect and not worship.

We even had Christian Koreans leave our schools because we bow to the founders shrine. The term shrine in western society doesn't hold the same as the shrine in eastern cultures where family members who have passed away have shrines. Ignorance destroys a lot of good things. I don't blame Christianty or religion for these problems because nothing in the bible mentions asian cultures or martial arts. I blame the people who make false assumptions and poison people with lies as a way to control others.
 

Tez3

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Well to be honest the 'Bible' was written in a specific way for a specific people, it wasn't meant for non Jews whether Asian or not. :)

Bowing ( and curtsying) used to be commonplace in Europe as well.
 

elder999

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Because if he is mixing hapkido with christianity (which I am not saying that he does or doesn't) he isn't just teaching Hapkido, but is also using Hapkido as a way to push his religion and all it's baggage(which was neither ever a part of, nor relevant for teaching Hapkido) onto others. In my mind, that is misuse of and disrespect for Hapkido, and I would react the same way if someone would mix politcs with their chosen martial art. "Hey! We are a Republican-based dojo!".

Then you should neither go there to train, nor recommend it for that reason.

Otherwise, he is up front about it, and obviously doesn't share your opinion-that should kind of be the end of it.

Ya know-opinions are like penises: it's fine if you have one, but that doesn't mean you should whip it out and wave it around.......
 
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