Should a Student Practice on His Own, or Not?

wimwag

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I would say the most important aspects of any martial training is in partner or multiple partner drills, training, and sparring. You will not learn proper timing and range without a partner but along with proper equipment like a punching bag or pad one can work on movement, structure, speed, power, tempering of the hands arms, legs and much more.
As an instructor I want my students, I encourage my students strongly to practice at home. Why would I? Do I want them to have better footwork, better balance, stronger legs, arms, bodies? We teach, instruct, and coach. There is a time for each and there is the time for the student to practice on their own. They will make mistakes, OK. A good teacher will allow them to make mistakes and then coach the corrections. The student will make the changes when coached properly. Having done something wrong and then coached to it being proper allows the student to know and understand what was wrong and why. Getting hit, kicked, taken down, thrown... all have their places in the advancement of the student's understanding and development. Practicing on one's own is a great place to get a lot of self-discovery about one's self and abilities and is a great tool to be used in conjunction with group instruction, one on one instruction, and one on one training. Practice as much and as often as you can.

I agree with what you are saying 100% but can see the issues arising from giving a student a DVD of material for that belt level when he reaches it. You would be in essence, giving him time to skip ahead of what you're teaching him and make mistakes that could cause an injury. Especially if the student is more interested in belt level than perfecting what he has been taught.

Sensei told me that the current belief is that it takes about 4 years of constant training for a student to perfect the Kihon katas. Those are the 5 fundamental katas for our system. Now when I started Pinan Shodan, Sensei was out for a surgery and after three weeks, I finally got my form corrected. It was the most subtle correction, but made a world of difference. I noticed immediately that my error was causing a tightening in my back. I relate this experience because a student could suffer a financial crisis and be unable to make it to the dojo and then begin relying wholly on that DVD. After a while, it becomes muscle memory and may be uncorrectable. Without an instructor being there, how can you be absolutely sure he isn't getting sloppy in his form and about to tear a meniscus, blow out a knee etc?
 

wimwag

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You missed the part were Balrog sent home dvds for his students to practice with. Guess what, that means they are getting instruction out side of the home from Balrog. Now I have no idea if they are Offical ATA videos, or Balrogs personally made videos, but either way, it will be a welcome addition to regular class room training. No one ever said that it replaced training.

No, they are getting a DVD of Balrog. Responsible instruction requires one to be present because supervision is vital.

At this rate, we could all pay tuition for one month and then watch UFC reruns for our instruction.
 

Steve

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No, they are getting a DVD of Balrog. Responsible instruction requires one to be present because supervision is vital.

At this rate, we could all pay tuition for one month and then watch UFC reruns for our instruction.

I don't quite understand how you jump from DVDs as supplemental resources to watching UFC.

I've been to numerous seminars, but the only one where I was able to incorporate the information was the one that was recorded. The DVD has proven to be invaluable as a resource.

Similarly, the Roy dean DVDs are terrific, even though I've never met him.

Ultimately, where it seems you and I diverge is that you out the responsibility for learning on the instructor. I put it on the student. It's up to the student to listen and learn, and to ensure he gets to class and listens to his coach.

I don't think anyone would suggest that learning from a DVD is ideal, or even adequate. But you take it to an extreme that is easily proven wrong.

If you can't see value in supplemental DVD tutorials, don't use them. But it's easily demonstrated that they have a lot of value if used appropriately.

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wimwag

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I don't quite understand how you jump from DVDs as supplemental resources to watching UFC.

I've been to numerous seminars, but the only one where I was able to incorporate the information was the one that was recorded. The DVD has proven to be invaluable as a resource.

Similarly, the Roy dean DVDs are terrific, even though I've never met him.

Ultimately, where it seems you and I diverge is that you out the responsibility for learning on the instructor. I put it on the student. It's up to the student to listen and learn, and to ensure he gets to class and listens to his coach.

I don't think anyone would suggest that learning from a DVD is ideal, or even adequate. But you take it to an extreme that is easily proven wrong.

If you can't see value in supplemental DVD tutorials, don't use them. But it's easily demonstrated that they have a lot of value if used appropriately.

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Wrong. I put ethics and responsibility on the instructor.
 

Steve

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You're funny. I said you're putting the responsibility on the instructor. You respond by saying I'm wrong and then agreeing with me. Ethics AND responsibility is still responsibility.

My advice to you is to stop being so adversarial, slow down and read people's posts. It will help your credibility.
 

wimwag

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You're funny. I said you're putting the responsibility on the instructor. You respond by saying I'm wrong and then agreeing with me. Ethics AND responsibility is still responsibility.

My advice to you is to stop being so adversarial, slow down and read people's posts. It will help your credibility.

It's like you purposely try to deflect what you're really saying. You blame the student 100%, where I blame the instructor since he uses those tactics in the first place. The DVDs are irresponsible.
 

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It's like you purposely try to deflect what you're really saying. You blame the student 100%, where I blame the instructor since he uses those tactics in the first place. The DVDs are irresponsible.

Odd. Students at our school have said, and their progress would seem to confirm, that the books I've written, including the video portions, have been very helpful.

And all this time I've just been irresponsible and didn't know it.
 

Steve

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It's like you purposely try to deflect what you're really saying. You blame the student 100%, where I blame the instructor since he uses those tactics in the first place. The DVDs are irresponsible.

I can only react to what you write. And you write some funny stuff.

And, surely you understand that your position on DVDs is your opinion. Right? Clearly, there are a lot of people who disagree and have seen a lot of value in instructional videos.

Also, fwiw, blame and responsibility are not the same.

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wimwag

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I can only react to what you write. And you write some funny stuff.

And, surely you understand that your position on DVDs is your opinion. Right? Clearly, there are a lot of people who disagree and have seen a lot of value in instructional videos.

Also, fwiw, blame and responsibility are not the same.

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That would make your position opinion as well. ;)
 

Steve

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That would make your position opinion as well. ;)
Obviously. So, since we've established that we're discussing opinions, it's a great time for you to actually support your opinion. This is where facts come in handy.
 

wimwag

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Obviously. So, since we've established that we're discussing opinions, it's a great time for you to actually support your opinion. This is where facts come in handy.

Support yours with something other than saying what somebody else said somebody said.
 

Steve

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Support yours with something other than saying what somebody else said somebody said.
I figured you were all bluster. Guys like you always are.

Well, okay. I guess if you're unwilling to do more than toss around adolescent style zingers, I'll try to add a little substance.

Should we start with the use of video at every level of education now, from primary education all the way up through advanced degrees? Universities and colleges use video training to educate and reinforce lessons in just about every discipline, from liberal arts to math to sciences. Most professors make video recordings available to their students to help the students understand technical instruction and it works. Video recordings make it possible for students to review lectures, learn complex technical procedures, and also extend their learning through research.

The same is true in other areas of adult learning, such as corporate training. Airline pilots are a great example of how online training and video are used to enhance and supplement other established training mediums, such as simulators, classroom instruction and hands on, practical training. A friend of mine designs training for a major airline. They use all kinds of mediums for training, including video where appropriate.

But that's not apples to apples. The leap would be too much for you, I'm guessing. How about sports? Video instruction is particularly useful for the novice athletes, teaching not just technique, but also drills designed to engage the young athletes and reinforce solid technique. Video is used at every level, from little league all the way up to the elite level athletes. Professional athletes watch film of themselves and others in their positions.

But, that's sports... not the same thing. This is martial arts. Well, how about all of the excellent DVD instructionals that have already been mentioned? Instructors and students have advocated for their use. This thread has had students and instructors from multiple styles endorsing the practical usefulness of DVD recordings in their training. My mom has Tai Chi videos that help her. I have several DVD instructionals that I would consider indispensable to my training. TKD instructors, karate instructors. And you've countered with exactly nothing more than a strongly worded declaration.

Whether you want to use DVDs or not is completely up to you. As we've already established, you are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion seems backed up by nothing more than thinly veiled sarcasm and ego stroking zingers. In contrast, others in this thread have supported their opinion with examples of how DVDs are used, students and instructors who endorse their use, and success stories of their use, even as they are careful to provide caveats that video use is not generally a suitable SUBSTITUTION for face to face, hands on training.

Frankly, you've been around for a little while now, and speaking just for myself, you haven't done a whole lot to establish yourself as credible on any subject other than anti-cop propaganda. You stir the pot a lot and seem to enjoy trying to poke people and get a rise. At some point, I'm hoping you bring something more to the table. And, ultimately, your opinion is only as credible as your reputation.
 

wimwag

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I figured you were all bluster. Guys like you always are.

Well, okay. I guess if you're unwilling to do more than toss around adolescent style zingers, I'll try to add a little substance.

Should we start with the use of video at every level of education now, from primary education all the way up through advanced degrees? Universities and colleges use video training to educate and reinforce lessons in just about every discipline, from liberal arts to math to sciences. Most professors make video recordings available to their students to help the students understand technical instruction and it works. Video recordings make it possible for students to review lectures, learn complex technical procedures, and also extend their learning through research.

The same is true in other areas of adult learning, such as corporate training. Airline pilots are a great example of how online training and video are used to enhance and supplement other established training mediums, such as simulators, classroom instruction and hands on, practical training. A friend of mine designs training for a major airline. They use all kinds of mediums for training, including video where appropriate.

But that's not apples to apples. The leap would be too much for you, I'm guessing. How about sports? Video instruction is particularly useful for the novice athletes, teaching not just technique, but also drills designed to engage the young athletes and reinforce solid technique. Video is used at every level, from little league all the way up to the elite level athletes. Professional athletes watch film of themselves and others in their positions.

But, that's sports... not the same thing. This is martial arts. Well, how about all of the excellent DVD instructionals that have already been mentioned? Instructors and students have advocated for their use. This thread has had students and instructors from multiple styles endorsing the practical usefulness of DVD recordings in their training. My mom has Tai Chi videos that help her. I have several DVD instructionals that I would consider indispensable to my training. TKD instructors, karate instructors. And you've countered with exactly nothing more than a strongly worded declaration.

Whether you want to use DVDs or not is completely up to you. As we've already established, you are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion seems backed up by nothing more than thinly veiled sarcasm and ego stroking zingers. In contrast, others in this thread have supported their opinion with examples of how DVDs are used, students and instructors who endorse their use, and success stories of their use, even as they are careful to provide caveats that video use is not generally a suitable SUBSTITUTION for face to face, hands on training.

Frankly, you've been around for a little while now, and speaking just for myself, you haven't done a whole lot to establish yourself as credible on any subject other than anti-cop propaganda. You stir the pot a lot and seem to enjoy trying to poke people and get a rise. At some point, I'm hoping you bring something more to the table. And, ultimately, your opinion is only as credible as your reputation.

Did not read the rant. Too much text, too little interest.
 

wimwag

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Also, there is nothing proving I am anti cop. Your opinion that I am is based off the emotions (rage, impatience, hate etc) you feel when I disagree with someone employed in law enforcement. You personally feel that your badge makes you better than me and go on long winded rants when I disagree with your holiness. We may have different opinions, but that does not make me a cop hater. You have bad habits and lying is one of them. Please be truthful next time and acknowledge that my opinion differs from yours instead of lying and calling me names, like "anti-cop" and "basher.". When I am having coffee with our towns police chief tomorrow morning at McDonald's I will be sure to show him your post and have a laugh at your expense. Toodles!
 

wimwag

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Frankly, you've been around for a little while now, and speaking just for myself, you haven't done a whole lot to establish yourself as credible on any subject other than anti-cop propaganda. You stir the pot a lot and seem to enjoy trying to poke people and get a rise. At some point, I'm hoping you bring something more to the table. And, ultimately, your opinion is only as credible as your reputation.
So what you're saying is that I should shut up and let you have your way because you have a higher post count than me? That I couldn't possibly have a point or know anything, even though I've already stated my reasons for disagreeing with the DVD method, because I haven't been here as long as you? It's not my fault your gang mentality gets the best of you and you ignore the content of my posts and ask me a question I've already answered. When you make a claim that a controversial tactic, which DVD training is, is beneficial and you are the one going against the norm, you have a responsibility to back that claim up. Not me. I have already stated the risks associated with giving the student material in advance and allowing them to watch it without an instructor present to monitor their form, which can cause injuries.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I am stirring the pot. You have an over inflated ego and assume that anyone who sticks to their core beliefs must be a troll or pot stirrer because it conflicts with your belief that you are always correct. I'm not going to roll over just because you refuse to acknowledge that I am entitled to my own opinion.

You're one of a billion "experts" on the internet. Your opinion means as little to me as I'm sure mine does to you. How about we just agree to disagree? Or do you have to get the last word in?
 

Steve

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Did not read the rant. Too much text, too little interest.
LOL... actual on-topic posts are a rant in your kooky world. Okay. I'll keep any response to you at the twitter level. 120 characters or less. Here goes:

Translation: You had no rational response and fell back on childish sarcasm. #writingishard

Also, there is nothing proving I am anti cop. Your opinion that I am is based off the emotions (rage, impatience, hate etc) you feel when I disagree with someone employed in law enforcement. You personally feel that your badge makes you better than me and go on long winded rants when I disagree with your holiness. We may have different opinions, but that does not make me a cop hater. You have bad habits and lying is one of them. Please be truthful next time and acknowledge that my opinion differs from yours instead of lying and calling me names, like "anti-cop" and "basher.". When I am having coffee with our towns police chief tomorrow morning at McDonald's I will be sure to show him your post and have a laugh at your expense. Toodles!
Wait. I thought you didn't read my post....
 

Dirty Dog

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Support yours with something other than saying what somebody else said somebody said.

I figured you were all bluster. Guys like you always are.

Well, okay. I guess if you're unwilling to do more than toss around adolescent style zingers, I'll try to add a little substance.

Should we start with the use of video at every level of education now, from primary education all the way up through advanced degrees? Universities and colleges use video training to educate and reinforce lessons in just about every discipline, from liberal arts to math to sciences. Most professors make video recordings available to their students to help the students understand technical instruction and it works. Video recordings make it possible for students to review lectures, learn complex technical procedures, and also extend their learning through research.

The same is true in other areas of adult learning, such as corporate training. Airline pilots are a great example of how online training and video are used to enhance and supplement other established training mediums, such as simulators, classroom instruction and hands on, practical training. A friend of mine designs training for a major airline. They use all kinds of mediums for training, including video where appropriate.

But that's not apples to apples. The leap would be too much for you, I'm guessing. How about sports? Video instruction is particularly useful for the novice athletes, teaching not just technique, but also drills designed to engage the young athletes and reinforce solid technique. Video is used at every level, from little league all the way up to the elite level athletes. Professional athletes watch film of themselves and others in their positions.

But, that's sports... not the same thing. This is martial arts. Well, how about all of the excellent DVD instructionals that have already been mentioned? Instructors and students have advocated for their use. This thread has had students and instructors from multiple styles endorsing the practical usefulness of DVD recordings in their training. My mom has Tai Chi videos that help her. I have several DVD instructionals that I would consider indispensable to my training. TKD instructors, karate instructors. And you've countered with exactly nothing more than a strongly worded declaration.

Whether you want to use DVDs or not is completely up to you. As we've already established, you are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion seems backed up by nothing more than thinly veiled sarcasm and ego stroking zingers. In contrast, others in this thread have supported their opinion with examples of how DVDs are used, students and instructors who endorse their use, and success stories of their use, even as they are careful to provide caveats that video use is not generally a suitable SUBSTITUTION for face to face, hands on training.

Frankly, you've been around for a little while now, and speaking just for myself, you haven't done a whole lot to establish yourself as credible on any subject other than anti-cop propaganda. You stir the pot a lot and seem to enjoy trying to poke people and get a rise. At some point, I'm hoping you bring something more to the table. And, ultimately, your opinion is only as credible as your reputation.

Did not read the rant. Too much text, too little interest.

So you demand support, Steve provides it, and you don't read it. Troll much?
 

wimwag

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LOL... actual on-topic posts are a rant in your kooky world. Okay. I'll keep any response to you at the twitter level. 120 characters or less. Here goes:

Translation: You had no rational response and fell back on childish sarcasm. #writingishard

Wait. I thought you didn't read my post....

I seem to recall asking if you were going to be a big boy and agree to disagree or if you were going to try to get the last word in.
 

Tames D

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Also, there is nothing proving I am anti cop. Your opinion that I am is based off the emotions (rage, impatience, hate etc) you feel when I disagree with someone employed in law enforcement. You personally feel that your badge makes you better than me and go on long winded rants when I disagree with your holiness. We may have different opinions, but that does not make me a cop hater. You have bad habits and lying is one of them. Please be truthful next time and acknowledge that my opinion differs from yours instead of lying and calling me names, like "anti-cop" and "basher.". When I am having coffee with our towns police chief tomorrow morning at McDonald's I will be sure to show him your post and have a laugh at your expense. Toodles!

With all due respect, I don't believe you are having coffee with a Chief of Police at Mickey D's, or any cop for that matter. Have someone take a picture of you two, post it here and I will give you a sincere apology.
 

wimwag

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With all due respect, I don't believe you are having coffee with a Chief of Police at Mickey D's, or any cop for that matter. Have someone take a picture of you two, post it here and I will give you a sincere apology.

Yes because I must be anti cop simply because one accuses me of it...get lost
 
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