Should a Student Practice on His Own, or Not?

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,312
Reaction score
264
No offense to anyone, but talk about paralysis by analysis! "Don't practice at home unless you know the technique already otherwise you'll engrain bad habits." Studying and learning martial arts is a lifelong process. We don't get everything perfect the first time through and correction of technique from our teachers can and should come continuously as we improve. A white belt and a black belt can both receive instruction on the same basic material, though perhaps with differing aspects.

Personally, I love it when I see new students practice their basics. I don't fear that they will ruin themselves by practicing without me present. Quite the contrary, I think they gain a lot from practice outside of class and never fear I'll be there to make adjustments along the way.
 
OP
G

Gwai Lo Dan

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
860
Reaction score
115
This thread just remind me when I was a catholic, I was not allowed to read bible at home. Only catholic priest can interpret the true meaning of bible.
I've never seen that in the Catholic church. At my confirmation, my Catholic school gave bibles to everyone being confirmed.
 
OP
G

Gwai Lo Dan

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
860
Reaction score
115
Maybe they'd had a student who got hurt practicing at home and tried to sue them?
Personally I have found practising at home to be safer - no banging of feet for instance when 2 people kick at the same time.
 

Tames D

RECKLESS
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
5,133
Reaction score
663
Location
Los Angeles, CA
No offense to anyone, but talk about paralysis by analysis! "Don't practice at home unless you know the technique already otherwise you'll engrain bad habits." Studying and learning martial arts is a lifelong process. We don't get everything perfect the first time through and correction of technique from our teachers can and should come continuously as we improve. A white belt and a black belt can both receive instruction on the same basic material, though perhaps with differing aspects.

Personally, I love it when I see new students practice their basics. I don't fear that they will ruin themselves by practicing without me present. Quite the contrary, I think they gain a lot from practice outside of class and never fear I'll be there to make adjustments along the way.

Finally someone said something real. People don't need constant supervision to improve their martial arts. Theres a time when that learners permit expires and you have to drive on your own. Make mistakes and learn from them. If correction is needed, deal with it. Being afraid to make a move without your Sensei's watchful eye is rediculous.
 

Gorilla

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
44
Location
Las Vegas
Finally someone said something real. People don't need constant supervision to improve their martial arts. Theres a time when that learners permit expires and you have to drive on your own. Make mistakes and learn from them. If correction is needed, deal with it. Being afraid to make a move without your Sensei's watchful eye is rediculous.

And it will hold back your development!
 

Kframe

Black Belt
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
651
Reaction score
12
Location
NE Indiana
Can I chime in?? In Budo taijutsu that I am a part of now, most of everything kata wise is done with a partner. I have only 5 short and I mean really short solo kata (san shin no kata not the same as the karate kata) and the rest(that I haven't learned yet..) are all paired.

So what about students of arts that do not use a lot of solo forms and drills? Even at high ranks there will only a literal handful of things you can do solo. Il rattle off my list. Kamae(posture/stances) the 5 San shin kata, the zenpo tsuki drill, the 2 aruki tsuki drills, basic hanbo(and I assume sword and other weapon) manipulation, the kicks and the ukemi(rolling).

I would imagine Hapkido would be in the same boat as I am. Now granted I can and do get a lot of practice just doing those things up there, but the real meat and taters of my art and in the paired work.

So how do we students of arts like this structure our home learning when only so much of it can be done solo. TBH hapkido will have a easier time, seeing as they have a lot more strikes and I guess are a more striking oriented art.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,727
Reaction score
2,753
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
So how do we students of arts like this structure our home learning when only so much of it can be done solo.
Solo drill = partner drill without partner

You can only use your solo drill to "polish" your skill after you have developed it. You can't use it to "develop" your skill. MA cannot be developed "solo".

Partner drill:


Solo drill:

 
Last edited by a moderator:

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,312
Reaction score
264
I would imagine Hapkido would be in the same boat as I am. Now granted I can and do get a lot of practice just doing those things up there, but the real meat and taters of my art and in the paired work.

I'd say the meat and potatoes of karate and even TKD are in the partner work also. We're all in the same boat. It's hard to get better at the finer details of fighting without someone to 'fight', even if the nature of the training is cooperative most of the time, I adopted the much criticized KKW style a while back, and hogu drills with a partner comprise a huge chunk of our time practicing.

You can only get up to a certain point without someone to exchange with. That's true of any fighting art.
 

Balrog

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,717
Reaction score
402
Location
Houston, TX
The school's opinion was that students are ok to stretch at home, but not practice.

Do you agree?
Disagree. Every student gets a DVD of the material for their current rank. We expect them to train at home in order to further reinforce what they learn in the school.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,727
Reaction score
2,753
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
The school's opinion was that students are ok to stretch at home, but not practice. Do you agree?

I taught a 50 students Taiji class one time. My Taiji form contain 108 moves. The class only meet once a week and 2 hours each time. I intend to finish those 108 Taiji moves in 3 months. So 3 x 4 x 2 = 24 hours and 108/24 = 4 to 5 moves per class.

Every class I taught 5 moves and when we meet again, I would teach another 5 moves. One day I found out that after I have taught them 40 moves, most of students could not remember the first 20 moves. I asked them whether they had practiced at home or not. They all told me that they didn't. I told them if they don't practice at home, there is no way that they can finish learning their 108 moves Taiji form in 3 months.

One should go to school to learn and come home to train.
 

wimwag

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
229
Reaction score
6
Location
Wisconsin
Disagree. Every student gets a DVD of the material for their current rank. We expect them to train at home in order to further reinforce what they learn in the school.

I too own many Kung Fu flicks.

Sent using Tapatalk 2.
 

Kframe

Black Belt
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
651
Reaction score
12
Location
NE Indiana
I too own many Kung Fu flicks.

Sent using Tapatalk 2.

Wow that was a thinly veiled insult if I ever seen one. What relevance does your smart aleck comment bear on this discussion? Honestly I find it easier to practice things at home with a dvd to follow.. Im sure many students of Balrogs Feel the same. So if they are getting good usage out of it, why come and make a foolish remark like that?

At least try to add something to the discussion.

On topic, this highlights the fact that home dvd's are helpful for practice at home when you have a teacher to train you
 

wimwag

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
229
Reaction score
6
Location
Wisconsin
Wow that was a thinly veiled insult if I ever seen one. What relevance does your smart aleck comment bear on this discussion? Honestly I find it easier to practice things at home with a dvd to follow.. Im sure many students of Balrogs Feel the same. So if they are getting good usage out of it, why come and make a foolish remark like that?

At least try to add something to the discussion.

On topic, this highlights the fact that home dvd's are helpful for practice at home when you have a teacher to train you

Watch the DVD buy the book and become a mail order black belt. It's the American Kyukido Federation way.

Just one question, if you're doing something wrong...say...not pivoting your foot when doing a roundhouse...and you tear the cartilage in your knee...did the DVD benefit you? Remember the TaeBo craze? What about when you strike with the ball of your foot and not the heel and you fail to neutralize your attacker? If your instructor is not there, he cannot help you.

Soldier of Fortune magazine has plenty of ads you'd be interested in if you choose to use DVDs in place of an instructor.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
18,080
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Watch the DVD buy the book and become a mail order black belt. It's the American Kyukido Federation way.

Just one question, if you're doing something wrong...say...not pivoting your foot when doing a roundhouse...and you tear the cartilage in your knee...did the DVD benefit you? Remember the TaeBo craze? What about when you strike with the ball of your foot and not the heel and you fail to neutralize your attacker? If your instructor is not there, he cannot help you.

Soldier of Fortune magazine has plenty of ads you'd be interested in if you choose to use DVDs in place of an instructor.

In place of? Who said anything remotely like that?
As a supplement to a good instructor, yes. If you actually read what's been posted, that is clearly how the DVD was used.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
18,944
Reaction score
4,526
Location
Covington, WA
I own several excellent DVD instructionals that have helped me a lot.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

Kframe

Black Belt
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
651
Reaction score
12
Location
NE Indiana
Watch the DVD buy the book and become a mail order black belt. It's the American Kyukido Federation way.

Just one question, if you're doing something wrong...say...not pivoting your foot when doing a roundhouse...and you tear the cartilage in your knee...did the DVD benefit you? Remember the TaeBo craze? What about when you strike with the ball of your foot and not the heel and you fail to neutralize your attacker? If your instructor is not there, he cannot help you.

Soldier of Fortune magazine has plenty of ads you'd be interested in if you choose to use DVDs in place of an instructor.

You missed the part were Balrog sent home dvds for his students to practice with. Guess what, that means they are getting instruction out side of the home from Balrog. Now I have no idea if they are Offical ATA videos, or Balrogs personally made videos, but either way, it will be a welcome addition to regular class room training. No one ever said that it replaced training.
 

Master Dan

Master Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
34
Location
NW Alaska
I think this is one of the most miss understood parts of training in Western culture US today is the difference between class training and your obligation to personal practice to improve. The original commitment was I will teach you one thing and you must accomplish that one thing well enough that I will reward you by teaching you another period?? I will never forget my father master talking about training in Japan and being put in front of a mirror and being told today you punch 8 hours nothing else. We have lost that in the paper mills. Class is for conditioning and teaching. Student now expect the master GM or instructor to do unending practice with them which is their responsibility they come back making the same mistakes for days weeks month over and over it drives me nuts. So what do you do break it stop them they learn nothing new and they get a chair a bag what ever and they will stand there and do 50 100 500 ever day until the technique is acceptable or bad habit is broke period!!

Good students practice at home or the gym to progress and students with the right motivation and attitude do mutual or group learning such as friends or siblings bond together to get better call community learning. I have had students walk in and show new forms I had not taught them done very well by students who did know and have a desire to share. 4,000 students I will not give a single black belt to anyone who is not committed to teaching and serving screw em go some place else I could care less.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,727
Reaction score
2,753
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
I have had students walk in and show new forms I had not taught them done very well by students who did know and have a desire to share.
In high school, when my teacher taught advance students the advance form, I was a beginner and just by watching and trained at home, I had learned the complete form. That year during the high school event, my teacher asked me to perform that form. I then knew that my stealing skill was not bad at all.
 

Danny T

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
2,292
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana USA
I would say the most important aspects of any martial training is in partner or multiple partner drills, training, and sparring. You will not learn proper timing and range without a partner but along with proper equipment like a punching bag or pad one can work on movement, structure, speed, power, tempering of the hands arms, legs and much more.
As an instructor I want my students, I encourage my students strongly to practice at home. Why would I? Do I want them to have better footwork, better balance, stronger legs, arms, bodies? We teach, instruct, and coach. There is a time for each and there is the time for the student to practice on their own. They will make mistakes, OK. A good teacher will allow them to make mistakes and then coach the corrections. The student will make the changes when coached properly. Having done something wrong and then coached to it being proper allows the student to know and understand what was wrong and why. Getting hit, kicked, taken down, thrown... all have their places in the advancement of the student's understanding and development. Practicing on one's own is a great place to get a lot of self-discovery about one's self and abilities and is a great tool to be used in conjunction with group instruction, one on one instruction, and one on one training. Practice as much and as often as you can.
 
Top