At what point does accomodation of a student remove them from practicing the actual art?

K-man

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There are significant differences between Goju Kai and the Okinawan Goju Ryu of the Jundokan. For instance, Yamaguchi developed the five basic Taikyoku kata that we used to get beginners to utilise basic techniques and stances. I think this was probably heavily influenced by Shotokan kata. We also used to perform one of the Naihanchi kata (more or less Sandan, but significantly different from most other Naihanchi I have seen). He also had a plethora of fighting drills and pre-arranged sparring. None of that is part of Jundokan training. Also the Japanese karate is more go/go (hard/hard) than all the Okinawan Goju forms I have seen which are more go/ju (hard/soft).

Sanchin kata is also significantly different with Goju Kai using Higaonna Sanchin, with the turns, as the basis for its kata and Jundokan using Miyagi Sanchin. Goju Kai uses hard breathing throughout the kata, Jundokan stresses the beginning and end of each breath.

But, having said that, the different Okinawan Goju schools are different too. In 1947 Higa Seko left Miyagi Chojun and opened his own dojo. Having trained under Higaonna Kanro, Yagi used Higaonna's Sanchin in its full version. Almost all Goju styles seem to break out into heiko dachi before beginning a kata. Jundokan move straight from masubi dachi.

So even within styles that are intrinsically the same, there are significant differences, none of which mean that any of the styles is not practising 'true' Goju.

Quick note on Sanchin kata. If a Goju style was to cut Sanchin from its curriculum, then I would say, it is no longer Goju because Sanchin is the signature kata of Goju Ryu. It encapsulates all the principles of Goju karate as dancingalone said above. All the Goju techniques have their structure based on Sanchin kata and that coupled with the body positioning and tensioning and breathing make Sanchin the base of the system. I actually believe it also contains extension of Ki, but that's a discussion for another day. :asian:
 
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puunui

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For instance, Yamaguchi developed the five basic Taikyoku kata that we used to get beginners to utilise basic techniques and stances. I think this was probably heavily influenced by Shotokan kata.

Or maybe that is what I was thinking of. I know dancingalone and I had this conversation, before I started having senior moments.
 

dancingalone

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What is the purpose of practicing sanchin kata, in your opinion?

It teaches correct posture and framing for maximum structural strength and stability both when moving and standing still. There are certain underlying assumptions that go hand in hand with this that Sanchin also teaches, such as unity of body and using your breath to augment your structure.

The kata doesn't look like much outwardly to laypeople but there's a lot going on there. Now certainly different arts create structure and power by emphasizing different qualities. The way Goju-ryu does it comes directly out of lengthy Sanchin practice, and it's unmistakable when you look at a karate-ka and you know what signs to look for.

I usually start teaching Sanchin to new students within the first few weeks, but it takes years to develop proficiency in. From some accounts, Master MIYAGI Chojun kept his students working on basics and hojo undo for a few years before teaching them Sanchin. And then he kept them on Sanchin for another 3+ years before teaching anything else. While very conservative by today's standards, this methodology underscores how important the kata is within the system.
 

puunui

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It teaches correct posture and framing for maximum structural strength and stability both when moving and standing still. There are certain underlying assumptions that go hand in hand with this that Sanchin also teaches, such as unity of body and using your breath to augment your structure.

The kata doesn't look like much outwardly to laypeople but there's a lot going on there. Now certainly different arts create structure and power by emphasizing different qualities. The way Goju-ryu does it comes directly out of lengthy Sanchin practice, and it's unmistakable when you look at a karate-ka and you know what signs to look for.

I usually start teaching Sanchin to new students within the first few weeks, but it takes years to develop proficiency in. From some accounts, Master MIYAGI Chojun kept his students working on basics and hojo undo for a few years before teaching them Sanchin. And then he kept them on Sanchin for another 3+ years before teaching anything else. While very conservative by today's standards, this methodology underscores how important the kata is within the system.

Would the practice of sanchin help those who study taekwondo, in your opinion? If so, in what way? Has sanchin practice help to develop your aikido? If so, in what way?
 

jks9199

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Folks, it seems to me that Sanchin kata is probably worthy of a thread to itself, especially since I don't see how analyzing it fits with determining how much can be eliminated or changed in training without going so astray that it's no longer the art presented.
 

puunui

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Folks, it seems to me that Sanchin kata is probably worthy of a thread to itself, especially since I don't see how analyzing it fits with determining how much can be eliminated or changed in training without going so astray that it's no longer the art presented.

ok.
 
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