Just curious...

[Touch Of Death]

If we are trying to cut teachers salaries, because, they don't have classes during the summer, and our children are falling behind the rest of the world in math and science, why not run school year round? We could hate the teachers less and teach our children more. Its a win win. Or we could quit requiring teaching degrees and get out of work actors to read a script. Thats where we are headed anyway.
Sean

 

[granfire]

Well, the 3 month summers are a thing of the past in many areas as it is: While we in the south are off come the end of May, we are also back in Session around the first week of August. Up north, Summer starts later and goes to the traditional Labor Day....so far we are ony a couple of weeks over what they have lets say in Germany (six weeks there, but the over all vacation days are about the same)

I, as parent like it better to have a little more off time during spring and fall. Lets face it, having the kids out of school that long at one time is a strain on the family: you have to arrange for sitters etc...

Also, there have been studies that suggest that 3 months are just too long of a vacation for kids. They tend to forget a lot.

I also think that people tend to forget that there is more time involved into teaching than the time spend actually in school. Preparations, etc need to be factored in as well.

Also: Budget cuts are not new. Around here there have been a lot of teachers supplementing classroom supplies with their own money. I think it really stinks that that is not aknowledged. (yes, I have a love hate relationship with teachers: A couple of my own I would still not say hello to, after over 20 years....but I found the people I am dealing with now as parent to be caring and involved! You know, like extra curricular activities, clubs they are sponsoring. I don't think they are embursed for that either)

 

[Twin Fist]

fine by me, when the kids can READ like they are supposed to, maybe i will cut the teachers a little more slack, if that means classes all year round, s be it

 

[Touch Of Death]

fine by me, when the kids can READ like they are supposed to, maybe i will cut the teachers a little more slack, if that means classes all year round, s be it

You see that is my point. I don't think republicans hate teachers; they hate the way it is set up. Lets change the system and treat teachers like the college educated people we require them to be.
Sean

 

[granfire]

Man, you have no idea!

If you can spend the time, go to a school (elementary) in one of the poorer neighborhoods. Chances are they will welcome you as volunteer mentor for the youngons to sit and read with them. You will be SHOCKED to see what they deal with there on a daily basis. There is absolutely NO foundation there to build on. The parents are mostly not involved or interested (I kid you not, on a PTO meeting in a school with maybe 500 kids, K to 5th, maybe a dozen parents showed up)

On top of that they have to produce test scores to keep the state off their backs, so they dedicate a LOT of time to teach the kids how to take those stupid tests. Seriously, about a semester is blown on that poop!

(and my favorite: Dibbles. Look it up. )

I am not sure how the pay is handled for summer school. That still happens, too.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Man, you have no idea!

If you can spend the time, go to a school (elementary) in one of the poorer neighborhoods. Chances are they will welcome you as volunteer mentor for the youngons to sit and read with them. You will be SHOCKED to see what they deal with there on a daily basis. There is absolutely NO foundation there to build on. The parents are mostly not involved or interested (I kid you not, on a PTO meeting in a school with maybe 500 kids, K to 5th, maybe a dozen parents showed up)

On top of that they have to produce test scores to keep the state off their backs, so they dedicate a LOT of time to teach the kids how to take those stupid tests. Seriously, about a semester is blown on that poop!

(and my favorite: Dibbles. Look it up. )

I am not sure how the pay is handled for summer school. That still happens, too.

I have an idea or two. LOL
Sean

 

[billc]

Where are they trying to cut teacher salaries?

 

[shesulsa]

They try to sell the public on the idea that teachers are getting paid 1. 50,000 per year (I haven't met a k-12 schoolteacher in public schools who makes that much) in salary alone but actually get paid about $40k per year more in benefits and health care.

What they DON'T tell you is that 40k is what human resource managers call "burden." It's not just teachers or unions, my little babies.

Any job at any company - whether they pay benefits to employees or not - have a "burden" cost. It is the cost of insuring the employee for the company's purposes, accounting for their time and investiture, providing certain materials, paying taxes, etcetera. Of course, if they do not contribute to any kind of payout benefit for the employee, the cost goes down.

Ask your local school when the school closes, officially, for the summer and opens for the fall. Up here, the kids have eight weeks of summer vacation. That's two months, people. The schools are open for three or four weeks (depending on grade level) after the years ends and open two weeks before the new year begins. During this time, they have to organize work, fill out state and local paperwork, pack their materials, enter grades, reconcile discrepancies, wrap up assessments ... there is still much work for a teacher to do beyond the end of the school day and on weekends. So up here, the teachers get ... oh, two weeks off in summertime. Less if they have to move their classroom or train.

I'm always amazed that everyone acts like nobody else is as busy or responsible as they are just because they don't walk in another person's moccasins.

Point one finger in one direction ... you have three pointed right back at you.

 

[Big Don]

Perhaps throwing good money, billions and billions of dollars of good money after bad isn't the way to fix anything.

 

[seasoned]

Having been through this as a parent, I know first hand that parent involvement is crucial in the development of YOUR child. Teachers are not baby sitters, especially where teens are concerned. We have to be involved with our kids, because it is an investment in their future. Thanks to my wife, our two kids could read when they hit kindergarten. I know, you will say, "it is the teachers job", NOT. You, as a parent, had their attention for 5-6 years before they hit school. These are the formative years, get them away from the TV, monitor their time, like you cared, get some books in the house and read to them before they learn to say NO. Make sure they are involved with well grounded grown ups, because the saying goes, "caught more then taught" from the time they can walk. Give them some structure along with some play time, and above all be their guide, not their friend.
Now, you have given the teachers something to work with. Now if they can't do their dam* job, now you can bitc* about it.
On the other hand, teachers are parents just like we are, some good, some bad. But the bottom line is INVOLVEMENT. The choice is simple, take the bull by the horns, because, by the time they hit 3rd grade, you have lost them to the system. Once they hit their teen years forget it, your a parent, someone from another world. Been there, done that, NO REGRETS.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

They try to sell the public on the idea that teachers are getting paid 1. 50,000 per year (I haven't met a k-12 schoolteacher in public schools who makes that much) in salary alone but actually get paid about $40k per year more in benefits and health care.

The median income of an elementary teacher in the Los Angeles school district is $67,200. For a high school teacher, it's $72,658.

In a school district with a 50% dropout rate.

The minimal pay a teacher in the district for a "Teacher with Regular Credentials" will get is $45,637.

Now, I'm not saying that teachers don't deserve the income. I just think that to say that they are "poor" is a stretch.

 

[granfire]

The median income of an elementary teacher in the Los Angeles school district is $67,200. For a high school teacher, it's $72,658.

In a school district with a 50% dropout rate.

The minimal pay a teacher in the district for a "Teacher with Regular Credentials" will get is $45,637.

Now, I'm not saying that teachers don't deserve the income. I just think that to say that they are "poor" is a stretch.

I would have to check what the pay rate is around here, but I am guessing about half. I think in the LA area they need every penny of that money....just to not be poor...

 

[shesulsa]

Perhaps throwing good money, billions and billions of dollars of good money after bad isn't the way to fix anything.

I guess it's all about what you define as bad. Using bailout money to pay bonuses to CEOs who run companies into the ground? THAT is bad in my book. Paying a teacher a somewhat decent salary when they are essentially the second parents to children for a good number of years? Not *necessarily* bad ... unless their students keep failing. THAT'S the problem for me, I don't see any teachers getting fired as a result of NCLB.

The median income of an elementary teacher in the Los Angeles school district is $67,200. For a high school teacher, it's $72,658.

In a school district with a 50% dropout rate.

The minimal pay a teacher in the district for a "Teacher with Regular Credentials" will get is $45,637.

Now, I'm not saying that teachers don't deserve the income. I just think that to say that they are "poor" is a stretch.

You're also looking at an economy in L.A. where you can't get an apartment for less than $1500 per month - and that's a studio. Cost of living there is abominable.

I would have to check what the pay rate is around here, but I am guessing about half. I think in the LA area they need every penny of that money....just to not be poor...

Agreed.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Teacher's salaries vary by state as does the education required to be a teacher.

In NYS they have to have a Masters degree if they want to stay in teaching. They can get the job with bachelors but without the masters they cannot keep it. I also believe they have to get that masters degree in 5 or 6 years or they are out of a job and during that time they are getting paid less than those with a master’s degree

Now if you want to compare teacher salaries compare it to people with comparable education in the state you are talking about.


Now to all these wonderful salary comparisons I see on the news; Funny thing about statistics, the actual number they give you is absolutely meaningless without the data to back it up and the formulas used to get to that statistic.

 

[shesulsa]

Teacher's salaries vary by state as does the education required to be a teacher.

In NYS they have to have a Masters degree if they want to stay in teaching. They can get the job with bachelors but without the masters they cannot keep it. I also believe they have to get that masters degree in 5 or 6 years or they are out of a job and during that time they are getting paid less than those with a master’s degree

Now if you want to compare teacher salaries compare it to people with comparable education in the state you are talking about.


Now to all these wonderful salary comparisons I see on the news; Funny thing about statistics, the actual number they give you is absolutely meaningless without the data to back it up and the formulas used to get to that statistic.

Unfortunately, this logic is lost on people who have been fearmongered into believing teachers are evil and corporations are good. Black and white, ya know?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Unfortunately, this logic is lost on people who have been fearmongered into believing teachers are evil and corporations are good. Black and white, ya know?

I use to work for a state office that was responsible for education and I have to tell you the costs of educations is not from the teachers’ salaries it is more with the operation of the government office that oversees education. Incredibly high salaries for the commissioner and deputy commissioners and redundancies galore. Offices working at cross purposes office working on the same thing and entirely unaware that another office is also working on it. And those redundancies go to the deputy commissioners as well and there are some that are so underworked that you could replace 3 with 1 and still have time for a 2 hour lunch.



Folks you want to look at salaries to fix things I suggest you look to the elected officials and the people they appoint first. But don’t stop there, they all have expense accounts and in some cases multiple accounts. There was one that was given a house and a driver and had expense accounts for food, transportation, housing, entertainment, etc. and still got a salary of well over $100,000 a year… and he was not the highest paid.

So teacher salaries, frankly I believe with all they have to do and all they are responsible I am not upset one little bit at what they are paid. However there are a lot in government that are very highly paid and no one seems to even be mentioning them at all…. Oh wait…now I remember why no one is talking about that ….their the ones complaining teachers make too much… You see that way they get us to look at something and someone other than them... and we go for it hook line and sinker

 

[Twin Fist]

Unfortunately, this logic is lost on people who have been fearmongered into believing teachers are evil and corporations are good. Black and white, ya know?

no one says TEACHERS are evil, teachers UNIONS however need to ****ing GO

 

[granfire]

no one says TEACHERS are evil, teachers UNIONS however need to ****ing GO

Apparently they are direly needed at least in the state of Wisconsin....

 

[Twin Fist]

the union was the problem, gran.

 

[granfire]

the union was the problem, gran.

How can the union be the problem when they negotiated and agreed to the cuts?

How can somebody who agrees be the problem?

Right now it seems the Governor is the problem. Having a little temper tantrum, because he didn't get all the candy...